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Re: Learning from No Man's Sky by pivoting core gameplay

Dinosawer wrote:Emphasize mine. Silver meant us modders. Josh already made it clear he isn't gonna do multiplayer, but is going to give us sockets (which are in Python by default anyway) so we can mod it in. :ghost:
These will be the C socket implementation API I believe.
Which are... nastier and have a metallic taste, because they are close to the tin. :V
But are faster. :P

Re: Learning from No Man's Sky by pivoting core gameplay

AlxndrM wrote:Been following this game since 2013, long time lurker, love the community.

Seems like Hello Games never intended to create the seamlessly super-connected googleverse many of us had hoped for. Instead, we were given a singleplayer-focused experience with little to no online player interactions.

Which is fine, I guess.

However, after interpreting the LT dev logs and after watching the Youtube stuff I realized that No Man's Sky really is a barebone version of what Josh Parnell is trying (tried?) to accomplish.

I therefore suggest that this project is way too big for a single guy with, to the best of my knowledge, no prior commercial game dev experience.

I do however think that the things he showed us a million years ago are amazing. I also think that there is a lesson to learn from NMS's debut:

People are really interested in interacting with other people in a huge ass space game. Why not fill in the gap with a Limit Theory that focuses on multiplayer?

I'm not sure how much this limits the scope of the game as we haven't seen anything for a long time. I do however think that you can vastly simplify the mechanics of LT to allow for a smaller yet more focused multiplayer-focused experience.

You can also take advantage of people's enthusiasm by being a little playful and allow for mods. Maybe by following the steps of Valve by providing a curated mod approval scheme a la Counter Strike and DOTA 2?

I realize this isn't what a lot of people are looking for, but who cares because all we are is dust in the wind.

I don't know, I'm no mortal man.

I think the lesson to learn from No Man's Sky is less about delivering a seamless multiplayer world(like EvE) but instead to deliver good and varied content. the great thing about procedural generation is that it really does open up for some very good and varied gameplay, but all of that depends on whether or not Josh implements the content so the algorithms can generate it. if there's only one mission type, of course missions will be boring, but if there are 10 or 20 mission types, combined with a robust RTS system, varied exploration(NMS suffers from this - every waypoint is the same. I'd love if LT were more varied and had things hiding in some systems that can't be found in others), and most importantly, a vastly superior AI than other games typically have(from what we've seen, this seems to be the case. NPCs aren't quest givers - they have some independence.) If all of this is implemented, and the algorithms that generate all of it as well as the ships, stations, planets(gas giants pls josh), etc allow for a lot of variation, then LT will be a pretty good game.

As for simplifying the mechanics, not certain there's much in the way of simplification you can do, other than eliminating the RTS aspects(which we haven't seen a ton of, unfortunately, though its obvious it still exists judging from some screenshots.) there really isn't much you can do in the way of simplification. I love the idea of multiplayer, and as others in this thread have stated, mods will definitely bring it to life, but for the vanilla game, I feel like a singleplayer experience is the best way to go. especially since that's what was originally promised, and you tend to lose favor with a lot of people when you don't deliver on everything. (No Man's Sky...hmmm....)
You have disobeyed God. Now you must pay the consequence.

Re: Learning from No Man's Sky by pivoting core gameplay

bkdevil wrote:Put me on the list of people that have no interest in multiplayer whatsoever. I really was drawn into the Limit Theory pitch because of the idea of an infinite single player experience. I don't want other people in my sandbox knocking my castles down! The AI will do a fair job of that on its own...
Hopefully the AI will do just that, bkdevil.

And multiplayer is the spawn of the devil. I'm not interested in a version of LT which embraces it. I just hope the game-play in LT will restore my faith in PCG titles. :angel:

The visuals in SC are really quite delicious to behold. I love human artists and their work. :D

Re: Learning from No Man's Sky by pivoting core gameplay

Elite:Dangerous and No Man's Sky were quite a disappointment for me. I think that this whole 'procedural generation' thing is done wrong. It's trying to, basically, fake content. Worked in the early days when there wasn't really any content to begin with; looks hollow and empty now when we are used to some quality world-building and story-telling.

I think any future title with PCG will suffer as a result...

What I'd love to see in LT is not really PCG but simulation - where the universe is created in the usual procedural way, and is left running in accelerated time for several thousands of years at least before the actual game starts. Empires would rise and fall; stations would be built, abandoned, discovered, re-build and abandoned again; fleets would be built, deployed, and used in wars; systems would be discovered, colonised, and exploited for resources, with all the consequences of industrial development like debris fields and abandoned derelict factories in now-empty asteroid belts...some systems would be sucked dry and become an ugly backwater, with no jobs; crime rate would naturally increase, and organised gangs would form and threaten trade in the more well-off nearby systems...and so on, and so forth, you got the picture. And you'll be there to learn about it from all sorts of clues and descriptions, and it'll all be real because it had actually happened in the game during the world-building simulation phase.

Basically, Dwarf Fortress: adventurer mode, IN SPACE!

NMS is still awing me with some of its visuals, although a lot of stuff is rather repetitive, and some combinations don't make any sense at all from biological viewpoint :ghost:

Also, where are my gas and ice giants? WHERE? Space with no gas giants, seriously? :ghost:

Edit: yeah, the point I was making: multiplayer won't save bad game design. E:D is a clear example of that. It's fun with friends because it's no fun otherwise, and it shouldn't be the case.
Survivor of the Josh Parnell Blackout of 2015.

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