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What about an intermediator ?

#1
Well, the problem seems to be, that Josh cannot stand community-pressure while developing the game, this pressure lead him into serious psychic trouble.
Ok.
What about having a intermediator then ? Someone who is a good friend in reality of him, or a person that has to do with him, a trusted person of Josh, and this person could give - i mean its the whole community here, all backers, all people that made this game possible, don't forget - the community some info about the game from time to time.
This way Josh's soul and brain would not be pressured by us, and the intermediator could just give us a posting each month, a little update or a bigger one, as he likes ? Josh could pay him with some bucks for that.
Wouldn't we be worth that ? Instead of leaving us here with barely nothing ?

And...why didn't Josh had this idea himself and much earlier ? I mean, isn't it normal, that every game has sorta community manager, because devs have other things to do ?
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#2
This has been suggested many times - mostly when Josh disappeared the first time.

Good-bye Josh & community, Aug 2 2016
I'm done, July 4 2016
The End of the Dark Days, Jun 27 2015
Some Help for Josh and LT?, Jun 10 2015
NEW RTB update suggestions going forward, May 31 2015
Updates that don't bother Josh: Any ideas?, Apr 4 2015
Open Source the thing please, Feb 21 2015
I am a Backer And Begin to feel worried about the Proyec, Feb 17 2015
The RTB Discussion Thread, Feb 8 2015
The Road to the Beta Series!, Jan 22 2015
Game marketing?, Jan 06 2015
The RTB discussion thread, Jan 04 2015

No real conclusion ever reached, though, as far as I saw, either on whether it should happen, if it could happen, or who it should be.
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#5
Way I see it, it moves the responsibility of "showing off" to the CM. The CM can directly pressure Josh into showing off little snippets, even if that means just looking over Josh's shoulder. Then, the CM packages the snippets into a community update. This results in a removal of "I don't want to show you guys this pile of rubbish, it's not beautiful yet," which seems to be the root of the problem at the moment.
To achieve this, it's important that the CM have a corporeal presence in the office, so that Josh can't go "It's not shiny yet! No pics for you!"
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#7
Silverware wrote:
BFett wrote:
Dinosawer wrote:While the idea is good, it just moves the problem from "Josh has to talk to us" to "Josh has to talk to the community manager". :think:
Make it his GF so that Josh has to talk to his Girl Friend :)
I don't think there is a ton of talking involved there :V
They dont live in the same state city any more :(
FTFY. ;)
Please don't take my advice. You will wind up in jail if you do.
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#9
Dinosawer wrote:While the idea is good, it just moves the problem from "Josh has to talk to us" to "Josh has to talk to the community manager". :think:

Before this thing here is over, many ppl in the forums will need a psychatrist, not only Josh.
First paid, then hope, then waiting, then a course in psychosomatic diseases, then frustration, then trust, then hope, then wait, then doubts, then frustration, then shame about the own stupidity, then a snippet of Josh, then 4 months hope, frustration, trust, wait, doubts again...who shall stay healthy with this ?

If you look at it like that, Josh has some serious delicts hanging at his butt. What about we just tell him, that we don't go to the police, when he offers us our monthly snippet again ? I'm sure his psychedelic..er..psychologic condition will stand this greatly.
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#12
Zanteogo wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:I'm sort of mildly curious what Josh's advisers at the Louisiana Tech Park have suggested, if anything, regarding communication with backers.
Since communication is not required to finish the project, just a nice thing to do, they probably don't care.
I'm going by this comment from Josh on Jan 22, 2016:
[color=#BF0000]JoshParnell[/color] wrote:I've now got some serious businessfolk who will be helping me structure the timeline / work / everything else as we get closer to release (I can almost feel the communal sigh of relief at the thought of Josh having some form of 'project management' team!)
Maybe communication wasn't one of those "everything else" items.

Incidentally, as of tomorrow (August 14, 2016) it will have been one year since Josh reappeared after the Dark Days to present his "The Beginning of the Golden Days" post.

One interesting note is something Josh said in that post from August of 2015 regarding communication:
[color=#BF0000]JoshParnell[/color] wrote:The bad news for you all is that, much like a more traditional developer, I won't be posting logs every day or posting constantly to the forums. I also won't be sharing too many details, screenshots, or videos until I've reached solid checkpoints and am ready to do so.
First, it's worth noting that Josh did very clearly say here (in a reasonable effort to set expectations) that he wouldn't be posting frequently as before.

But secondly, I'm intrigued by that comment about "solid checkpoints." What constitutes a solid checkpoint?

(I have an additional question about that, but there's no way to ask it without sounding like I'm demanding proof of progress, so I'll stop here.)
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#13
Flatfingers wrote:
Incidentally, as of tomorrow (August 14, 2016) it will have been one year since Josh reappeared after the Dark Days to present his "The Beginning of the Golden Days" post.
I wouldn't exactly call the Limit Theory era we are currently in "golden". Not dark mind you, but certainly not a golden age. Maybe the age of realism and we actually exited the age of fairy tales and gum drops?
Flatfingers wrote: First, it's worth noting that Josh did very clearly say here (in a reasonable effort to set expectations) that he wouldn't be posting frequently as before.

But secondly, I'm intrigued by that comment about "solid checkpoints." What constitutes a solid checkpoint?

(I have an additional question about that, but there's no way to ask it without sounding like I'm demanding proof of progress, so I'll stop here.)
I'm certain the solid checkpoints are like all the previous check points. They seem reasonable at first, but then get blown past by years. Remember, Beta was supposed to be 6 months after the prototype...
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#14
Zanteogo wrote:I wouldn't exactly call the Limit Theory era we are currently in "golden". Not dark mind you, but certainly not a golden age. Maybe the age of realism and we actually exited the age of fairy tales and gum drops?
I disagree; we're definitely still in the Dark Days. Think about this: in the year since Josh's big absence, exactly what new information about LT do we have? We know that Josh is currently re-writing the entire engine on a very unusual basis because the old one simply couldn't handle running the game logic. And that's it.

We don't know if this is the last thing to be done before release, or if this is simply fire-fighting causing a complete rethink of the whole premise.

We don't know if Josh thinks this will be completed before the heat death of the universe, we don't know what major components are still to be written or even conceived, we don't even know what state the whole thing needs to be at before Josh will give us any kind of update that describes 'progress' as anything other than 'I rewrote a lot of code today', which is in no way helpful to anyone.
But secondly, I'm intrigued by that comment about "solid checkpoints." What constitutes a solid checkpoint?
I think it's also interesting that we haven't hit a single checkpoint in a year, if that is still Josh's position. This business team he's working with are either completely useless if they've been unable to define a practically achievable checkpoint in a year, or Josh has not met a single checkpoint in a year, or he has but it's no longer his position that he'll update us when he does.

I've been wondering, since I realised that Josh is not running on a professional project basis, whether he even understands what we're all asking for? I'm becoming more convinced that he does not, since his only posts are to reassure us that he'll never stop working on LT - I think 99% of the forum community accept and understand that.
What we need to know is either when does he think it'll be ready, or at least, what work does he feel needs to be done before it'll be ready (so we could make up our own minds).
These are NOT unreasonable questions.
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Re: What about an intermediator ?

#15
Ringu wrote:I think it's also interesting that we haven't hit a single checkpoint in a year
This is the realization I chose not to ask about.

My guess is that it's a combination of the other tech park people becoming entirely hands-off over the past year, plus Josh continuously redefining what qualifies as a "solid checkpoint" achievement. More simply, he may just have forgotten he mentioned this as a goal.
Ringu wrote:I've been wondering, since I realised that Josh is not running on a professional project basis, whether he even understands what we're all asking for?
...
What we need to know is either when does he think it'll be ready, or at least, what work does he feel needs to be done before it'll be ready (so we could make up our own minds).
These are NOT unreasonable questions.
Again, while this would be reasonable applied to a more conventional game development project, I believe this puzzlement arises because it's an assumption that does not apply to Josh and Limit Theory.

That assumption being, "Josh is making Limit Theory for other people." He has explicitly said that he is making it for himself to enjoy.

When you appreciate that distinction, the observed behaviors make more sense. "Professionalism" only applies when making a thing for other people. Communication about features and schedules only applies when making a thing for other people.

This is why I long ago extinguished any expectations about features or delivery dates for LT, and only offered a suggestion about communication recently with diffidence. I could be wrong, but my operating belief -- because it best fits the facts -- is that Josh will tinker with Limit Theory for as long as he wants to and can afford to. Eventually he might release a version of Limit Theory to the public, or he might not ever think any version is good enough to release.

So I set my expectations based on that. If I get to play a version of LT someday, cool. If not, well, I enjoyed my time here. In other words, I choose to be win-win about this.

Life's too short.

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