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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#16
Poet1960 wrote:
Cornflakes_91 wrote:And how to gimp the AI but not the player without braking player-AI parity?

By limiting the autonomous actions that an non player controlled AI can do.

So you say that the workers of executives should be dumber than the ones the player owns?

You know that the basic premisse of the game is that the player has the same capabilities as any AI?

Why should an object behave differently depending on a player-employed worker or an AI employed worker usong it?
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#17
I was thinking that using cash as a way to limit player expansion speed, might be a solution to some extent.

Some ideas:

1. In order to expand your empire you need to place/buy regional offices or HQ's that have a set range of influence, which could possibly be upgraded to higher ranges, which will of course cost more money. (To sort of act like a money sink)

2. To have a way to gain the ability to build on a populated planet that is not yours, once you gain the ability it allows you to further increase your influence and allow you to build other things like perhaps factories/mines/ship yards etc.

3. If you find a new planet and colonize it yourself, you don't have to spend all the money to build on it, which would encourage exploration and make it worthwhile.

4. Regional governors run by AI, you know, like a lot of 4x type games have, or the game civilization. You tell them what you want them to do but you can always step in and micromanage if you want.

Just a few ideas.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#18
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote:
Cornflakes_91 wrote:And how to gimp the AI but not the player without braking player-AI parity?

By limiting the autonomous actions that an non player controlled AI can do.

So you say that the workers of executives should be dumber than the ones the player owns?

You know that the basic premisse of the game is that the player has the same capabilities as any AI?

Why should an object behave differently depending on a player-employed worker or an AI employed worker usong it?

No, you need to go a level higher. I am not saying you have to REMOVE abilities, merely throttle them to a reasonable level.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#20
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote: No, you need to go a level higher. I am not saying you have to REMOVE abilities, merely throttle them to a reasonable level.
Give me a concrete example instead of yelling abstract concepts :P

How can I do that when I have no idea of what Josh has in place? I didn't realize that the concept was so difficult to understand.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#22
Poet1960 wrote:How about you give me a concrete example of an AI, "snowballing out of control" first?
AI has a ship production facility and a miner.
Mines resources, builds a second miner.
Can mine and replicate faster now due to having more resources available.
Two miners become four, four become eight.
Repeat until the game crashes.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#23
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote:How about you give me a concrete example of an AI, "snowballing out of control" first?
AI has a ship production facility and a miner.
Mines resources, builds a second miner.
Can mine and replicate faster now due to having more resources available.
Two miners become four, four become eight.
Repeat until the game crashes.

And the simple solution is, to put a cap on it, or something else that keeps it from getting out of control. There is a myriad of ways you could restrain it to a reasonable level.

The other thing is, motivation. WHY would it want to go balls to the wall? What is driving it to do those things? To what purpose? Just because it can? There has to be something that triggers it to build more miners, or whatever, it only has so much money, so many resources, how is it deciding what to build and why?
Last edited by Poet1960 on Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#25
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote: or something else that keeps it from getting out of control.
which is exactly what we were initially discussing in here :P

except with that applying to everyone in the game instead of only to AI

So let me get this straight, you are afraid of the >AI< running amok, so your solution is to gimp both the AI and the player? Why? Some strange sense of justice? Are you some kind of masochist? :lol:
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#26
Poet1960 wrote: So let me get this straight, you are afraid of the >AI< running amok, so your solution is to gimp both the AI and the player? Why? Some strange sense of justice? Are you some kind of masochist? :lol:
because there are more than enough games where the player has the advantage out of principle, because hes the player. i want a game which is actually fair for once :P
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#27
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote: So let me get this straight, you are afraid of the >AI< running amok, so your solution is to gimp both the AI and the player? Why? Some strange sense of justice? Are you some kind of masochist? :lol:
because there are more than enough games where the player has the advantage out of principle, because hes the player. i want a game which is actually fair for once :P

I dunno about you, but I play games to have fun, if I want to be frustrated, annoyed and inconvenienced, all I have to do is walk out my front door and deal with real life.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#28
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote: or something else that keeps it from getting out of control.
which is exactly what we were initially discussing in here :P

except with that applying to everyone in the game instead of only to AI
I see nothing wrong with 1>2>4>8>16 miners. That just sounds like building a business in real life.
Management efficiency issues kick in when people have to do more taxing tasks than "Shoot that rock for 20 minutes then dock and repeat". Sure, 100 stock exchange trading NPCs would damn well cause some issues, but that's where lower level managers come in. Instead of one person managing 100 people, 1 person manages 5, who manage 25, who manage 100. The use of intelligent NPCs to manage their workforce for the player is vital to limiting efficiency loss (Which is fairly low when everyone wants to do their job).

This system also allows for corruption too. If worker NPCs had a numerical value of how much they liked their manager/manager's manager/you they could possibly join a manager's revolution if that manager and the workers disliked you enough. Of course, this generally would occur within factions, where I assume the execs would become part of the faction rather than a freelance for hire.

It should be DIFFICULT to become large as growth is the most unstable period, however I also think it should be somewhat easier to maintain size, unless of course your competitors decide to come knocking with missiles and guns. :V
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#29
Poet1960 wrote: I dunno about you, but I play games to have fun, if I want to be frustrated, annoyed and inconvenienced, all I have to do is walk out my front door and deal with real life.
then go play one of the billion and one power phantasy games that are already out there.

it was firmly established from the very beginning that the player will be given no quarter :shrug:
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Re: late game and overpowered/large empires/ factions

#30
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Poet1960 wrote: I dunno about you, but I play games to have fun, if I want to be frustrated, annoyed and inconvenienced, all I have to do is walk out my front door and deal with real life.
then go play one of the billion and one power phantasy games that are already out there.

it was firmly established from the very beginning that the player will be given no quarter :shrug:

I don't think it was put quite that way.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

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