WASAVA wrote: i dont have any evidence from a medical doctor that says that josh has mental problems ....where are the tests ??? i dont have any test that verify that josh are sick or have a problem
to preventing pursue or advance this project ... for me josh can be so sick or be in Hawaii with his girlfriend enjoying our money so simple for me and it hurts but so sorry but I feel very very frustated with this

And you'll never have such evidence unless Josh and Josh alone decides to release it. You can't extract it any other way, because that is confidential. This is an unreasonable demand which you make repeatedly.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm feeling a bit malcontent myself. But I know that it's hard for me to get things done (and even harder to tell people I can't/don't get them done), and I'm not even mentally ill! (well, no more than the average, I suppose. ) That gives me a little empathy for Josh. Additionally, I see no way speaking about my discontent can further my aims (of acquiring Limit Theory). Thus, I don't complain much.
But I didn't back the game. I have only lost time to it, and my time is cheap. Maybe it's different to those who have put a hundred dollars of hard-earned capital into the Kickstarter.

Despite frequently criticizing Josh myself, I too get tired of how repetitive WASAVA is, and how frequently he repeats himself.

Still, that's no excuse to keep telling he should "get a life" (this is supper disrespectful, because you mean that people do not have one and also that you know what is better for them) or to mock issues with his written English skills. That's pretty inappropriate, although sometimes people candidly forget to note. What about, as Zanteogo always correctly points, if people just avoid this thread if they can't handle the negativity that comes up here? I don't think we have to every week go over and over again the obvious fact that this thread exists for people to complain. So, let them complain, shall we?

Again, yes, WASAVA is repetitive, yes his line of complaining is fruitless, but why do you care? Just don't read this thread. Or if you don't want to leave the whole thread, just don't read WASAVA's posts (which is what I generally do). But, if by any reason you just can't hold yourself (or want to rectify false factual claims that he have made), certainly do not be hard on him, offend him or try to convince him to leave the forums just because you don't know how to handle it civilly.

I have removed some of the posts from this thread. Posting a private message from a moderator on a public board with the intent of calling out or stirring up ire against the forum staff is not allowed here. Complaints should be taken to me, or one of the other moderators, as should have been done in this situation.

I'll PM the people involved to explain to them why their posts were removed. I encourage discussion on this board - it is, after all, The General Unhappiness Megathread. However, I'd like to formally discourage people from posting their thoughts that the Kickstarter was a scam as fact. Reasoning, debating, and holding open discussion about it is all right, but we must keep in mind that newcomers visit these boards regularly and may leave with mistaken negative impressions. In truth, we don't really know a thing, but we have ample evidence to suggest that a scam was not Josh's intent.

I hope you are okay Josh, it's hard to tell with no recent communication from you. I have taken onboard what Francois had to say about your progress but like many who are still here it would be good to read some actual words from you. Has this Community been relegated to such a low position in your thoughts that you no longer feel the need to even speak to us?

I'm really surprised that people keep coming here and throwing that same scam claim around every few months. Even if you were to believe that were true you would have to accept this point:

You only ever get to do a Kickstarter scam once so make sure its a good one!

I don't imagine that Josh got a huge amount of money from this project, so claiming he is off in the Bahamas or something riding Dolphins and high-fiving Richard Branson is ludicrous in the extreme.

Nach allem was ich über Menschen wie Josh gelernt habe, sind diese mit persönlichen Problemen oftmals überfordert. So werden Bedürfnisse und Vorlieben auch mal schnell der momentanen Situation angepasst, das ist was obsessive Menschen ausmacht. In einem hin und her an persönlichen Grundsätzen und den, durch die Therapie, gesetzten Grenzen zum Selbstschutz bleibt manchmal einfach nicht genug Platz um auf die Gefühle von Menschen einzugehen, deren Existenz bei weitem nicht den Stellenwert haben kann wie ihn Menschen aus dem engeren privaten Umfeld genießen sollten.

Xyloq wrote:Nach allem was ich über Menschen wie Josh gelernt habe, sind diese mit persönlichen Problemen oftmals überfordert. So werden Bedürfnisse und Vorlieben auch mal schnell der momentanen Situation angepasst, das ist was obsessive Menschen ausmacht. In einem hin und her an persönlichen Grundsätzen und den, durch die Therapie, gesetzten Grenzen zum Selbstschutz bleibt manchmal einfach nicht genug Platz um auf die Gefühle von Menschen einzugehen, deren Existenz bei weitem nicht den Stellenwert haben kann wie ihn Menschen aus dem engeren privaten Umfeld genießen sollten.

translation for readability for non-german speaking forumites:

"after all what i've learned about people like Josh is that they are often overwhelmed by personal problems. Needs and preferences quickly get adapted to the current situation, which is a defining characteristic of obsessive personalities. In the split between personal principles and, by the therapy defined, constraints for self preservation the feelings of other people dont get valued as highly as would be appropriate for People from the closer personal circles."

Well, I'll be frank.

I now visit this forum once every 2-3 months. That's how uneventful it's become. I fully expect Josh to, in the foreseeable future, let everyone know that work will be discontinuing, and how sorry he is that he couldn't complete the project.

I believe his heart is in the right place, and he really is trying to deliver what he promised, but as a single developer, I think he's bitten off way more than he can chew. I don't doubt his skills, but one person, as talented as he may be, can only do so much. If anything, I think his resolve has been admirable. I don't doubt how much of a massive undertaking this has been, but eventually I think realisation will dawn that the game is just too big for one person to develop. At least given what's been promised. In my view, anyway.

I'll still occasionally check the forums, in the likelihood I'm wrong (which, let's be honest, I could be, otherwise nobody would still be here), but as time has gone on, my hope the game will ever see the light of day has dwindled to practically nothing.

19 months I've been a member, now, and in that time all I've seen are words. I joined just when the actual updates stopped. Which I suppose is a good thing, as I didn't become as emotionally invested in the project, despite being really drawn in by the premise of it all.

I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am. I've let go of any frustration at this point. It's still an interesting concept, even if it does never see the light of day.

Anyone here heard of a platformer game on steam called "Dust:_An_Elysian_Tail"?

A truly amazing game, with some of the most amazing artwork I have ever seen. Apart from a few things like voice acting and story elements this was the work of a single developer. It took him three and a half years, after first believing that it might have take 3 months.

The point here is it can be done.

Memnoch wrote:Anyone here heard of a platformer game on steam called "Dust:_An_Elysian_Tail"?

A truly amazing game, with some of the most amazing artwork I have ever seen. Apart from a few things like voice acting and story elements this was the work of a single developer. It took him three and a half years, after first believing that it might have take 3 months.

The point here is it can be done.

The ninety-ninety rule and Hofstadter's Law come to mind:

Tom Cargill wrote:The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time...The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

Douglas Hofstadter wrote:Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

And even worse would be to add more people to the project.

Grumblesaur wrote:The ninety-ninety rule and Hofstadter's Law come to mind:

Tom Cargill wrote:The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time...The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

Douglas Hofstadter wrote:Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

And even worse would be to add more people to the project.

Hadn't seen the 90-90 rule before. I like it

Silverware wrote:

Grumblesaur wrote:The ninety-ninety rule and Hofstadter's Law come to mind:

Hadn't seen the 90-90 rule before. I like it

Hello.

I've thought about this, and I want to say this to many of you: your treatment of WASAVA was hypocritical, undeserved, and just plain mean.

We all know the purpose of this thread, so telling people not to post because we've seen it all before, and that WASAVA should just chill out and not come here if he doesn't like the state of things is hypocritical: if you all don't want to read criticism that was very low-key anyway ("Two days for another month without any news about this project ....josh that attitude as bad [...]"), you could follow your own advice and just not read this one thread.

Complaining that his frequent, repeated posts are unnecessary is itself unnecessary, and since he was commenting in the appropriate place, following all the rules, it was totally undeserved.

Then the whole "why are you even here?" bit was simply mean; he has more right to be here than many other people, being an actual backer of the Kickstarter project who was TOLD to come here by Josh himself.

And the statements about go complain to Josh elsewhere, I felt, was just horrible - Josh has not replied to or made comment on Kickstarter in over a year, has only ever told anyone to come to the forums for contact or updates, and hasn't been seen online in three months anywhere! We all know this, and know that there is NO other way to contact Josh, at his own insistence! Telling someone who's using the right thread in the right way to find an alternative that you all know simply doesn't exist, for me, seriously breaks the spirit of this community, and I for one feel you who participated in that should be ashamed.

It must be so hard when English is not your first language to get your points across anyway, and with the barrage of comments AND the weird, twisted view that many of us here have on the whole situation, trying to debate these finer points from the POV of a different culture, language, and even financial position, is deserving of some tolerance over and above that which we normally ascribe, and I feel that WASAVA has been let down by us in that regard.

I respect everyone here to have their own viewpoint, and despite myself I keep coming back to these forums because of the community and the individuals like Victor and Talvieno, but honestly, this time I think a few specific people should reflect on their words more.

Ringu wrote:I've thought about this, and I want to say this to many of you: your treatment of WASAVA was hypocritical, undeserved, and just plain mean.

We all know the purpose of this thread, so telling people not to post because we've seen it all before, and that WASAVA should just chill out and not come here if he doesn't like the state of things is hypocritical: if you all don't want to read criticism that was very low-key anyway ("Two days for another month without any news about this project ....josh that attitude as bad [...]"), you could follow your own advice and just not read this one thread.

Complaining that his frequent, repeated posts are unnecessary is itself unnecessary, and since he was commenting in the appropriate place, following all the rules, it was totally undeserved.

Then the whole "why are you even here?" bit was simply mean; he has more right to be here than many other people, being an actual backer of the Kickstarter project who was TOLD to come here by Josh himself.

And the statements about go complain to Josh elsewhere, I felt, was just horrible - Josh has not replied to or made comment on Kickstarter in over a year, has only ever told anyone to come to the forums for contact or updates, and hasn't been seen online in three months anywhere! We all know this, and know that there is NO other way to contact Josh, at his own insistence! Telling someone who's using the right thread in the right way to find an alternative that you all know simply doesn't exist, for me, seriously breaks the spirit of this community, and I for one feel you who participated in that should be ashamed.

It must be so hard when English is not your first language to get your points across anyway, and with the barrage of comments AND the weird, twisted view that many of us here have on the whole situation, trying to debate these finer points from the POV of a different culture, language, and even financial position, is deserving of some tolerance over and above that which we normally ascribe, and I feel that WASAVA has been let down by us in that regard.

I respect everyone here to have their own viewpoint, and despite myself I keep coming back to these forums because of the community and the individuals like Victor and Talvieno, but honestly, this time I think a few specific people should reflect on their words more.

I agree wholeheartedly.

If only we could expect anyone to acknowledge their own manners and actions, and to stop dismissing opposite views.

edit : this place is the only where people could discuss freely until recently. Please let it be, thanks

I don't have a problem with anyone who complains in this thread as long as they remain respectful. When members resort to personal attacks on the owner of these forums, the moderators for doing their best in difficult circumstances (and for free) or each other for expressing their genuine dissatisfaction and unhappiness with the current state of affairs I do get annoyed.

I will admit openly that I'm not happy with how communication is being handled by the creator of this project but I won't resort to calling him names or attempting to besmirch his character. Nor will I do that to any member who expresses their own unhappiness about the project without resorting to personal insults.

I take the point that for many here English is not their mother tongue but that is no excuse for bad mouthing other members, the moderators or Josh Parnell. If you want to sling arrows of that nature do it elsewhere.

Or sling them at me...if it will make you feel any better. I won't retaliate but I have a long memory for such attacks.