NonBritGit wrote:I didn't get in on the kickstarter, but I would be fairly certain that there would be a bit of an uproar stating "we want our money back" if this happened.

The only message that will not cause an uproar at this point is "Ta-da! Here's the finished game." That would be a nice message to read, but it's seeming rather unlikely. If he declares failure of course some people will ask for their money back, and nothing will come of it. Kickstarter is not a preorder. Declaring failure brings closure and if not satisfaction, at least peace of mind to everyone involved – not least Josh himself.

IronDuke wrote:

WASAVA wrote: I have become much more cautious of the projects I back nowadays. I'd love a refund, but I know it's just a pipe dream.

I'm not complaining about the project taking so long. But not talking to us - his backers, his supporters - is not excusable.

Was this part copy-pasted from something? It reads quite differently, has perfect grammar, caps, and punctuation.

--IronDuke

And what is the problem if i copy one idea that i feel and i like it ???

No rudeness intended. No problem implied. No insults hurled. I just found that curious.

--IronDuke

IronDuke wrote:No rudeness intended. No problem implied. No insults hurled. I just found that curious.

--IronDuke

I copy that phrase because it expresses what I also feel and share with that person in kickstarter .... besides English is not my native language but I try to understand ....

at the end all those unhappy people many of their thoughts take them as mine because they express what I also feel on the stage of this project

That makes plenty of sense.
I'm off then. o7 --IronDuke

IronDuke wrote:That makes plenty of sense.
I'm off then. o7 --IronDuke

999 posts, better make the thousandth a big one

WASAVA wrote:

Employee 2-4601 wrote:

Ringu wrote:I think WASAVA was referring to the line "perhaps a small investment from some of the backers" when he said "at least I can not say that's true"

Is WASAVA not a Kickstarter backer?

i am a backer ....

English is not my native language ... in the end the point is that this process at this stage has not been honest with much darkness and at least I have no proof and clear reasons to understand the problems josh may have ... .the other point is that josh is hidden behind the curtain and information about this project is a failure at this stage ... sadly we trust a person who promised us a spatial universe and to this point we have only a partially desilucion and for me it is clear that with high probability this project is already a failure or at least partial evidence to this point ... that to be sending reasons "that if josh told me that everything will be ok" that's a step false...
I have become much more cautious of the projects I back nowadays. I'd love a refund, but I know it's just a pipe dream.

I'm not complaining about the project taking so long. But not talking to us - his backers, his supporters - is not excusable.

Here is a question for you;

In your opinion, how much does Josh have to do in order to fulfill his kickstarter requirements? Let's pretend that he is unable to complete the game. At one point is the stuff he's done considered 'enough'? What about for other kickstarter projects?

Kickstarter states that as long as someone is doing their best effort to complete a project, there is no problem, and that if a project can't deliver on the original goal, as long as the intentions were in good faith, there is no reason for recourse.

DWMagus wrote:In your opinion, how much does Josh have to do in order to fulfill his kickstarter requirements? Let's pretend that he is unable to complete the game. At one point is the stuff he's done considered 'enough'? What about for other kickstarter projects?

Kickstarter states that as long as someone is doing their best effort to complete a project, there is no problem, and that if a project can't deliver on the original goal, as long as the intentions were in good faith, there is no reason for recourse.

As has been pointed out here many times, this particular form of the KS rules weren't in place when LT got funded, so as far as I can tell, Josh could publish a stream where he took the money and went to a strip joint every night for a week and blew it all, and that wouldn't contravene the conditions that us backers did sign up to.

But to answer your question, for me, fulfilling his kickstarter promise would only be possible by releasing the game. That's what's 'enough', it's what he promised to do.

If what you're really asking is 'what does Josh have to do for us to not ask for a refund', again for me, he's already done it. He made a good faith effort to develop the game. He was open and transparent about that development for a while, and to me, we all have to accept that sometimes software projects fail despite best intentions.

So so so

No news from josh last 3month... Very uncool from a game developper.
Last time, he said we have news in septembre-october, but nothing at all like every time he said that.
What's next ? Possible to ask to kickstater to refund the backers ?
because it's clearly a scam, no alpha, beta, or somethings on rail.
Time limit is very far from us now.

So, we attempt a class action ?
In fact, i'm not ready to seat on my money, and want to be back or i have what i paid, the game !

So josh, get out from you dark room, leave us a real message, when !!! it's time to say the truth
or refund everybody !

And the big problem in this, is Josh never give us infos about the game, like he did very well few years ago at the beginning of the devellopement

Yes I am angry ! Because I come every 2 months hoping for news, but no, no excuses, no infos on the development, nothing at all !!!

@Ringu Yeah, DWMagus is really looking at the requirements rather than what was promised. To me, fulfilling the promise is finishing the game and getting everyone their game and any other rewards for their backer level, but fulfiling the requirements is something different. While the rules at the time of the funding of this game were different from they are now, I think a basic requirement is communication, which I believe many feel has not been fulfilled, hence why we have 60 page thread of people unhappy with what is going on.

tr3ddy wrote:So so so
So, we attempt a class action ?
In fact, i'm not ready to seat on my money, and want to be back or i have what i paid, the game !

Yes I am angry ! Because I come every 2 months hoping for news, but no, no excuses, no infos on the development, nothing at all !!!

This is still not how pledges work. They are not purchases. They are a personal investment, and carry an inherent risk. You accepted that when you pledged. If you want to buy a video game and receive it promptly, I suggest finished ones on your favorite online distribution platform or brick and mortar store.

Mistycica wrote:

tr3ddy wrote:So so so
So, we attempt a class action ?
In fact, i'm not ready to seat on my money, and want to be back or i have what i paid, the game !

Yes I am angry ! Because I come every 2 months hoping for news, but no, no excuses, no infos on the development, nothing at all !!!

This is still not how pledges work. They are not purchases. They are a personal investment, and carry an inherent risk. You accepted that when you pledged. If you want to buy a video game and receive it promptly, I suggest finished ones on your favorite online distribution platform or brick and mortar store.

that's why we named that a class action my friend
And i have already have refund for other projects on kcikstarter
I contact at this time kickstarter, for have more info on him, the project and the refund or a possible action if refund it's not possible by them (in France we are many kickers in angry mode on this project)

And sometimes, a little poursuit, can make a big difference, it's sade and bad, but i's like that !

Mistycica wrote:

tr3ddy wrote: This is still not how pledges work. They are not purchases. They are a personal investment, and carry an inherent risk. You accepted that when you pledged. If you want to buy a video game and receive it promptly, I suggest finished ones on your favorite online distribution platform or brick and mortar store.

This is not exactly true. That is one view of "how pledges work". It's not the absolute truth. At this point, I really wish people would stop lecturing others on "how pledge works", what Kickstarter is or is not, etc. Everybody is grown up and smart enough to know these things, search online and make their own interpretations.

It is perfectly fine if backers that are displeased try to get a refund. It is perfectly reasonable, specially when developers like Josh disappear or do not give a damn about backers for two years, that such backers wish and try for their money back. If Josh is/did or is not/did not fulfilling/fulfill his part of the agreement, is up to each one to decide.

So yes, everyone who happens to feel LT is dead or that Josh's lack of transparency and feedback came to the point of harming their rights as backers, by all means do ask for refunds, do contact Josh (in case one day he replies), do try to sell pledges. If any of that is going to work, if Josh will agree, if legal action will have to be taken and if such legal action would have chances of success, that''s all to be seen. I myself wouldn't have high hopes with any of such options.

But no single forum-member is up to say anything about any of that. Much less about whether or not legal means are worthy in this case or "how pledges work".

Lawsuits and the like are nasty things, and are usually very expensive and painful for all involved, unless you happen to win against someone who actually has large amounts of money (i.e., not Josh!) Personally, I feel that lawsuits/legal action are massive overreactions, especially given Josh's stated willingness (and, iirc, proven history) to honor refunds if they are requested , especially when one takes into account the tiny chance of getting anything worthwhile out of it at all. Besides, you came here looking for a game. I can't think of anything you could do that could doom whatever chances LT may have of coming out more than initiating legal action.

Damm depression just plain right sucks!

It's sad to see it has claimed another dream. I was really loking forward to this game, but another blackout is, in my experience with the disease, a very bad sign. If I were to guess, In this case is probably related to shame of failure, no one likes to fail. Admiting to failing? Even less! So i think people could relate to that.

The problem is, the more you try to shove it under the rug, the worst it gets, the ansiety of it just builds, up and up, until people crack. For me the only way to break the cycle is to own up to those failures and get that ansiety out of the way, and i say that understanding is a hard thing to do.

I hope that if that is what is happening here, Josh comes out and just tells the comunity, cause that would at least take the burden of people expectations out of his back. Otherwise the worry about them is just gonna Keep hanging over his head.

What he does after that is his own decision, maybe take a six month sabbatical, cause from my perspective it doesn't seem to be very healthy for him to keep working on this project, at least for the moment.