Silverware wrote:

Grumblesaur wrote:I don't even know what kind of game Stellaris is playing at being. It's too long-form for your typical RTS but too devoid of features to be a 4X. It's feels like Neptune's Pride with animations.

Stellaris is mostly a Paradox game with elements of 4X and RTS.
If you don't like how "barren" the gameplay is now, take a look in another year when Paradox have put some effort into it.
This is the way of the Paradox Game. In the beginning it is a void, full of pure potential. By the end it is a game of epic proportions! :V

Except if you decide to wait, you get chewed out and told that you will be playing a dead game by the time the last DLC comes out

So it's been over a month again...

I would hope that Josh would provide us with an update prior to October 1st, but the chances of that seem next to none so long as Josh thinks he owes us some enormous update.

BFett wrote:I would hope that Josh would provide us with an update prior to October 1st, but the chances of that seem next to none so long as Josh thinks he owes us some enormous update.

I have a feeling (not based on any actual evidence mind you), that we are in for another long silence. I think it will be similar to the one that occurred at the start of the year. I hope the reason for the silence is not similar of course.

DigitalDuck wrote:

Dinosawer wrote:A scam is tricking people into giving you money for something you never intend to deliver.
LT is just bad management and non-existent PR.

I'll agree with this.

I'd argue Elite: Dangerous was a scam - I don't think they ever intended to deliver a DRM-free game, or a game with an offline mode, so including those in the Kickstarter was fraudulent behaviour. Similarly, No Man's Sky was a scam - they deliberately misrepresented their product in various stage shows and lied about the game having features it doesn't even after released.

Limit Theory, I believe Josh had (has?) every intention to deliver a fully-fledged game with the features promised. It's just been poorly managed, both with regards to time and public relations, that have had a negative effect on the game's development.

Well, call it what you like, but Frontier has managed to deliver a playable product while Josh isn't even communicating with you guys anymore. I was in love with the idea of LT long before I even considered buying Elite, then ended up purchasing Elite only after things became dark for LT...now I have 1600 hours into Elite and have been motivated by its sheer magnificence to spend several thousand dollars to update my PC and buy a Thrustmaster Warthog and Slaw pedals because I can easily picture spending many many more hours playing it. If THAT is a scam I'll take some more, please.

Meanwhile, the only news coming out of LT development is in everybody's imagination.

jasonbarron wrote:If THAT is a scam I'll take some more, please.

--IronDuke

Dunno, I would be quite mad if LT came out as a multiplayer-only game with no offline mode

Dinosawer wrote:Dunno, I would be quite mad if LT came out as a multiplayer-only game with no offline mode

At this point wouldn't you just be happy if it actually came out at all? I know I sure would. I only bothered commenting in the first place because I thought criticising a game that was actually playable and quite good while defending a game that was not (and very likely will never be) was kind of silly.

jasonbarron wrote:At this point wouldn't you just be happy if it actually came out at all? I know I sure would. I only bothered commenting in the first place because I thought criticising a game that was actually playable and quite good while defending a game that was not (and very likely will never be) was kind of silly.

context /ˈkɒntɛkst/ noun the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.

I was replying to a conversation which suggested LT was a scam. That was the context of the comment.

scam /skam/ noun a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

I believe very strongly that Braben was dishonest. I believe he had no intention to provide a DRM-free version of Elite: Dangerous. I believe he had no intention to provide an offline version of Elite: Dangerous. I believe that even if he had the intention, he would have known it was not viable long before it was announced to backers. I believe that this information was deliberately falsified/withheld to collect/maintain as much money as possible. And backers that have been loyal to the project from the start that are displeased with this are denied refunds. I believe this to be a scam.

I do not believe that Josh was dishonest. I believe he intended to provide Limit Theory. I believe he intended to keep us updated. I believe he's merely mismanaged the project. I do not believe this is a scam.

DigitalDuck wrote:

jasonbarron wrote:At this point wouldn't you just be happy if it actually came out at all? I know I sure would. I only bothered commenting in the first place because I thought criticising a game that was actually playable and quite good while defending a game that was not (and very likely will never be) was kind of silly.

context /ˈkɒntɛkst/ noun the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.

I was replying to a conversation which suggested LT was a scam. That was the context of the comment.

scam /skam/ noun a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

I believe very strongly that Braben was dishonest. I believe he had no intention to provide a DRM-free version of Elite: Dangerous. I believe he had no intention to provide an offline version of Elite: Dangerous. I believe that even if he had the intention, he would have known it was not viable long before it was announced to backers. I believe that this information was deliberately falsified/withheld to collect/maintain as much money as possible. And backers that have been loyal to the project from the start that are displeased with this are denied refunds. I believe this to be a scam.

I do not believe that Josh was dishonest. I believe he intended to provide Limit Theory. I believe he intended to keep us updated. I believe he's merely mismanaged the project. I do not believe this is a scam.

I found it rather interesting how Braben didn't say a thing about single player UNTIL very near the end of the KS and it was failing miserably. Only THEN did he say anything about having offline single player.

So yeah, I totally agree, he probably had no intentions whatsoever of providing that. It was a last ditch ploy to save his failing KS campaign.

Poet1960 wrote:
I found it rather interesting how Braben didn't say a thing about single player UNTIL very near the end of the KS and it was failing miserably. Only THEN did he say anything about having offline single player.

So yeah, I totally agree, he probably had no intentions whatsoever of providing that. It was a last ditch ploy to save his failing KS campaign.

Yes, it makes perfect sense to save a failing KS campaign by announcing something that'll tick off a large portion of the player base.

--IronDuke

IronDuke wrote:

Poet1960 wrote:
I found it rather interesting how Braben didn't say a thing about single player UNTIL very near the end of the KS and it was failing miserably. Only THEN did he say anything about having offline single player.

So yeah, I totally agree, he probably had no intentions whatsoever of providing that. It was a last ditch ploy to save his failing KS campaign.

Yes, it makes perfect sense to save a failing KS campaign by announcing something that'll tick off a large portion of the player base.

--IronDuke

Yes, it does. Announcing that his game would have offline single player capability would bring in MORE people, only later would they find out it won't actually have that, but by then it's too late, he's got their money already and he hit his money goal. Otherwise he wouldn't have hit it and failed. So yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Poet1960 wrote: Yes, it does. Announcing that his game would have offline single player capability would bring in MORE people, only later would they find out it won't actually have that, but by then it's too late, he's got their money already and he hit his money goal. Otherwise he wouldn't have hit it and failed. So yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Doesn't work.
I didn't pre-order the game because of that, and a lot of people tried to get refunds. (Some did, some didn't, blah blah.)
Long story short, he dun losted moneys.

And if he hit his money goal, why would he need to salvage the KS?

--IronDuke

He salvaged the KS by hitting the money goal, which was achieved via an influx of people who saw "offline single player."
Or so I'm led to believe. I don't actually have any information of my own; I'm just trying to clarify Poet's position.

jasonbarron wrote:

Dinosawer wrote:Dunno, I would be quite mad if LT came out as a multiplayer-only game with no offline mode

At this point wouldn't you just be happy if it actually came out at all?

In all honesty, no -- and I don't understand why anyone would be happy about that, if the game wasn't what it was supposed to be.

The "it's super-late, so just release something" theory is crazy -- that means all the time was for nothing, and no one is happy (seriously -- after the initial excitement of the release, a bad game is nothing more than a bad game).

If it actually reaches the point where Josh has to give up, then sure -- release what you've got. But until that point, I'd much rather wait for the game he described in the first place.