Something that I've noticed with Kickstarter projects in general is that there are two key problems with the process:

1. Often times these projects aren't good enough to garner private investment, so they turn to Kickstarter.

2. It is easier to ignore 5000 backers who gave $20 each than 5 investors who each invested $20000 each.

I don't think observation #1 applies he re because I think Limit Theory was strong enough to garner investors and I think Josh's Stanford pedigree gives him ample connection to investment if he wants it. The larger concern is observation #2, which I've seen manifest itself in Kickstarter project after project. It's easy for each backer on here to say, "Eh, it's only $20, no big deal." But, I bet that reaction would be a little different if you had $20,000 invested in the project.

masseffect7 wrote:Something that I've noticed with Kickstarter projects in general is that there are two key problems with the process:

1. Often times these projects aren't good enough to garner private investment, so they turn to Kickstarter.

2. It is easier to ignore 5000 backers who gave $20 each than 5 investors who each invested $20000 each.

I don't think observation #1 applies he re because I think Limit Theory was strong enough to garner investors and I think Josh's Stanford pedigree gives him ample connection to investment if he wants it. The larger concern is observation #2, which I've seen manifest itself in Kickstarter project after project. It's easy for each backer on here to say, "Eh, it's only $20, no big deal." But, I bet that reaction would be a little different if you had $20,000 invested in the project.

Private investors are nearly impossible to acquire without a great example of RoI. Games will usually only garner private support if they're from a well known developer/publisher, and even then only maybe.

You have a point with the second one, though.

Also kudos for the Mass Effect love!

Kimny wrote:After his totally justifiable semester of reclusion in the beginning of 2015, a mature developer should have certainly found an equilibrium between the unsustainable communication patterns of the past and the totally reproachable lack of communication and feedback of the last year and a half. Sure, Josh should focus on coding, not on interacting with community, but it does not mean not giving news about game content for 1.5 year.

One might look at it this way:

The Limit Theory Kickstarter ended successfully in December of 2012.

For two years, Josh delivered an extraordinary level of communication: frequent forum comments, monthly-ish video updates, and a devlog nearly every single day.

That ended in January of 2015. Since then, it's been nearly two years of no videos, rare forum comments (but welcome ones when given), and no devlogs.

It's now been nearly two years since then.

So maybe in early 2017, after two years of massive communication, followed by two years of minimal communication, we'll begin to see a middle ground between those two extremes, in which Josh gives us a brief status update (and maybe an occasional screenshot) every week or two.

Just a thought.

luniquekero wrote:I'm done with LT and I'm done with Josh.

At least I'm not a backer, thank god, but your decision to keep development progress from them, and not be transparent with your work while thousands of dollars was handed to you is immature, immoral and unprofessional.

You were doing so well 2 years ago, I would use LT as an example of a project going in the right direction, and you know what, even after your burn out, if you had at least kept the transparency afterward, a video every few months instead of every months, monthly blog posts, SOMETHING, it would have been fine.

At this point now I'm royally annoyed, not with the lack of game, that, ultimately, I'm not even that bothered with, failures can happen, but with the developper's attitude.
Shame on you.

We are the entitled generation. We live to consume, feed me NOW! or to hell with you.

There is a big shift between developers and the gaming public over recent years, not an especially nice one either, it's like 'being on-line' and 'polite' are anathema to each other suddenly? Is this the wider fallout of all the 'gamersgate' stuff? The general atmosphere in gaming forums seems much more toxic than even a few years back? Which is a shame, and sucks to be a game dev!

Just a couple thoughts; LT seems to be in limbo, and obviously that is just a tragedy for those that were heavily invested in the game concept, be that in terms of having financially backed the game, or simply from having bought into all the hype that pervaded the forum & various updates back in the old days.

Personally, I imagine that all will be forgiven if the game ever releases in a playable state, regardless of shattered expectations right now. Backers & believers will all be happy, and people who've never even heard of it will be delighted to find a new release in their favorite genre. I know that I used to be all psyched up (LT was my most anticipated for nearly 2 years running) for the game to be released, and now I only care enough to check in to the forum on a bi-monthly basis on the off chance that there is some news. When there isn't, no big deal, I just go back to doing something else like playing Elite Dangerous. If one day there is some good news, I'll be excited and hopeful.

If the game ever DOES release, though, it's bound to bring in many "outsiders" who not only haven't financially backed LT, but will have the outrageous temerity to actually voice their opinions about it. Not all of these opinions will be positive; I wonder if this community will be able to handle that?

jasonbarron wrote:If the game ever DOES release, though, it's bound to bring in many "outsiders" who not only haven't financially backed LT, but will have the outrageous temerity to actually voice their opinions about it. Not all of these opinions will be positive; I wonder if this community will be able to handle that?

The community as a whole? Probably.

The people still regularly posting here after nearly four years are the hardest of the hardcore. If Internet Ranting could bother them, they would already have immolated themselves.

Incidentally, you do know that I read every word of all your comments in Archer's voice, right?

Zak Gordon wrote:

luniquekero wrote:I'm done with LT and I'm done with Josh.

At least I'm not a backer, thank god, but your decision to keep development progress from them, and not be transparent with your work while thousands of dollars was handed to you is immature, immoral and unprofessional.

You were doing so well 2 years ago, I would use LT as an example of a project going in the right direction, and you know what, even after your burn out, if you had at least kept the transparency afterward, a video every few months instead of every months, monthly blog posts, SOMETHING, it would have been fine.

At this point now I'm royally annoyed, not with the lack of game, that, ultimately, I'm not even that bothered with, failures can happen, but with the developper's attitude.
Shame on you.

We are the entitled generation. We live to consume, feed me NOW! or to hell with you.

There is a big shift between developers and the gaming public over recent years, not an especially nice one either, it's like 'being on-line' and 'polite' are anathema to each other suddenly? Is this the wider fallout of all the 'gamersgate' stuff? The general atmosphere in gaming forums seems much more toxic than even a few years back? Which is a shame, and sucks to be a game dev!

This isn't exclusive to gaming communities. It's actually the internet in general. As the internet has become more and more prevalent in everyones lives it has given into the rise of trolls. Now obviously trolls are not new. They've always existed, but they were a minority subset of the wider internet community. With the "me" generation (or entitled generation as you put it) it lends itself more and more to sociopathic tendencies. What's worse is that it is very much an infectious concept. The more trolls you encounter the more likely you yourself are to become a troll because of the natural "If I can't beat em, might as well join em" mentality that humans tend to exhibit.

As I said, this isn't exclusive to gaming. But gaming does have a particularly nasty breed of them. These are people who genuinely enjoy making other people uncomfortable and with the rise of a personality like Donald Trump literally running for president it has not only made this sort of behaviour acceptable, it has almost made it encouraged. It breeds nastiness towards one another. Pure and simple.

Sadly we live in the times of a perfect storm with regards to narcissism and entitlement and that has ramped up natural hostility towards one another. Sometimes I wonder when, if ever, it will end.

I suspect the trolls were always there in the general population.

The increasing ubiquity of the Internet has simply mainstreamed them.

Flatfingers wrote:I suspect the trolls were always there in the general population.

The increasing ubiquity of the Internet has simply mainstreamed them.

That's exactly right, that's what I mean. They aren't new, just that 10-20+ years ago we were all taught to behave and be polite. We were, but many only were because they were supposed to be. The internet has given them a means of breaking free of those shackles and unfortunately that culture has started to flourish in recent years.

TGS wrote:

Flatfingers wrote:I suspect the trolls were always there in the general population.

The increasing ubiquity of the Internet has simply mainstreamed them.

That's exactly right, that's what I mean. They aren't new, just that 10-20+ years ago we were all taught to behave and be polite. We were, but many only were because they were supposed to be. The internet has given them a means of breaking free of those shackles and unfortunately that culture has started to flourish in recent years.

They can't be hurt if no one knows who they are.

TGS wrote:

Flatfingers wrote:I suspect the trolls were always there in the general population.

The increasing ubiquity of the Internet has simply mainstreamed them.

That's exactly right, that's what I mean. They aren't new, just that 10-20+ years ago we were all taught to behave and be polite. We were, but many only were because they were supposed to be. The internet has given them a means of breaking free of those shackles and unfortunately that culture has started to flourish in recent years.

They are the same people who drive ultra aggressively and act in general jerky manner but would never do such a thing outside of their metal saftey boxes.

Zanteogo wrote: They are the same people who drive ultra aggressively and act in general jerky manner but would never do such a thing outside of their metal saftey boxes.

We should take away their metal bawkses!

0111narwhalz wrote:

Zanteogo wrote: They are the same people who drive ultra aggressively and act in general jerky manner but would never do such a thing outside of their metal saftey boxes.

We *Asthma Attack*, we should take away, their metal bawkses!

FTFY.

Flatfingers wrote:So maybe in early 2017, after two years of massive communication, followed by two years of minimal communication, we'll begin to see a middle ground between those two extremes, in which Josh gives us a brief status update (and maybe an occasional screenshot) every week or two.

Just a thought.

It's a wonderful thought, Flat, and I congratulate you on your optimism. I was hoping we would get beta for Christmas which now seems unlikely. I still don't understand what he mean't by his "summer of LT" pronouncement. I thought it heralded a more communicative Josh. I guess that was my Pollyanna side being over optimistic...again.