What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:09 pm

bkdevil wrote:I read all the posts leading up to this one. I understand where you're coming from, but my answer is still going to be "cut nothing". I want to see LT 1.0 as it exists in Josh's dream. I don't want to play LT Lite tomorrow and then the full version in 2 years. I'd rather wait out the 2 years. And if waiting for a feature truly means that the game can never, ever exist, oh well. There are a thousand other games out there that have *some* of the features LT 1.0 is supposed to have (and possibly all of them if we start cutting features), I can just play them.


The difference between LTLight now and no LTLight is that josh could start selling it and get a steady source of revenue to continue working, though.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Tribel » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:58 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:The difference between LTLight now and no LTLight is that josh could start selling it and get a steady source of revenue to continue working, though.


This. I support a ton of early access games on Steam. I'm not a Kickstarter backer, but I would throw down money in a heartbeat for a somewhat usable demo release.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby bkdevil » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:17 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:The difference between LTLight now and no LTLight is that josh could start selling it and get a steady source of revenue to continue working, though.


*sigh* I'll be honest, I just really, really dislike the whole "early access" release model and I probably let that fact disrupt my thinking on questions like this one.

To the question, what would I cut to accelerate release, I would still say nothing. To the question, what I would I cut to save the game from never being released, I should be a more reasonable person. To actually see something materialize I would say I could lose:

- Intelligence gathering / selling / the whole intelligence broker role
- Planet colonization
- Mod support

I apologize for refusing to think about the question because of a bias I have towards the whole pay for beta release types that there are so many of nowadays.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Black--Snow » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:15 pm

bkdevil wrote:*snip*

Yeah, I agree whole heartedly. As long as LT is still being released I am wanting a full release with nothing withheld, but I'm more than happy making a concession for features if LT were at risk of not being completed.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:08 pm

of course i want a full release over a partial release, im just pointing out facts and possibilities for if the full release isnt doable without additional funds.
Last edited by Cornflakes_91 on Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby BFett » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:02 pm

I think we are all on the same page. Release in full if funds permit, else make temporary cuts to the product and release patches as they are developed.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Zanteogo » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:51 am

The other side of the coin is that games that have "forever" post release development do have a feeling of always being "fresh" to a certain degree. The other bonus is once the game is released the pressure to cut conners is much lesser making the post release patch content possibly of higher quality.

Would I wait 5 more years for a fully completed LT? If need be. I do feel bad for the older members who may not live to see the release however.... (I'm "older", but not to the point that LT development will probably out live myself thankfully)
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby masseffect7 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:27 pm

I don't know if you guys play any Paradox games, but there is a sort of a love-hate relationship when you do the extended release format. Paradox has kept many of their games in at least some level of development for five years or more, releasing free updates and DLC of various sizes. Zanteogo hits the nail on the head with the benefit of the game feeling fresh for a longer period of time due to the gradual changes that are made to the game. However, the downside is that often games with this time of development schedule aren't very good at release and can take a few years before they're any good, which can affect the reputation of the game. At this point, I feel that the reputation damage has already been done and it may be best to adopt such a development schedule.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Silverware » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:20 pm

masseffect7 wrote:I don't know if you guys play any Paradox games, but there is a sort of a love-hate relationship when you do the extended release format. Paradox has kept many of their games in at least some level of development for five years or more, releasing free updates and DLC of various sizes. Zanteogo hits the nail on the head with the benefit of the game feeling fresh for a longer period of time due to the gradual changes that are made to the game. However, the downside is that often games with this time of development schedule aren't very good at release and can take a few years before they're any good, which can affect the reputation of the game. At this point, I feel that the reputation damage has already been done and it may be best to adopt such a development schedule.


Just because the release version is not as good as the final version (post 7/10 years DLC and patches) doesn't mean that the initial version is actually bad.

Take the most recent Paradox releases with this model, Stellaris and HoI4.
Both have an obvious end-goal that will be absolutely smashing.

But both were 100% playable and fun from day zero.

We aren't talking a Call of Doody, or a Battleshit game here. Where the initial version is garbage, and the patches remove features.
But something developed by people who REALLY care about the output game.

All hail Paradox Development!
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Tribel » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:42 pm

Silverware wrote:All hail Paradox Development!


I love Paradox games, but I am honestly not a fan of the DLC-fest.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby masseffect7 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:04 pm

@Silver I felt that Stellaris and HOI4 were not very good at first.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Silverware » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:58 pm

masseffect7 wrote:@Silver I felt that Stellaris and HOI4 were not very good at first.


They were not perfect sure, but damn i had a ton of fun with both at 1.0



Tribel wrote:
Silverware wrote:All hail Paradox Development!


I love Paradox games, but I am honestly not a fan of the DLC-fest.


This is true, the sheer number of DLC can be daunting, and I would not recommend this approach for most games.
Instead I would go with a phased release policy. DLC is released, sits around for 6 months or a year, then gets integrated into the core game.
So that people who dont have the money can still play the game in it's entirety a year after you finish all development on it.

But what Paradox do is much closer to the original Idea of expansion packs than any other developer currently working.
(Except maybe EA with the Sims, they still havent moved from the sims 1 model of expansion packs.)
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Talvieno » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:00 pm

masseffect7 wrote:@Silver I felt that Stellaris and HOI4 were not very good at first.

I've loved Stellaris ever since it came out. To each their own. :)
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Black--Snow » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:06 pm

Feeling "fresh" is not something I care about at all. That's a really odd argument for promoting DLC because it's 250% subjective. X3 doesn't feel fresh to me at all, but I still happily play Albion Prelude with more enthusiasm than the 'fresher' X: rebirth.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:25 pm

Black--Snow wrote:Feeling "fresh" is not something I care about at all. That's a really odd argument for promoting DLC because it's 250% subjective. X3 doesn't feel fresh to me at all, but I still happily play Albion Prelude with more enthusiasm than the 'fresher' X: rebirth.


AP is the most recent expansion pack of X3, though :roll: (whichs base version is over a decade old by now ._. )

(And XR is simply a different game which broke for the largest part with the previous X games, so its not entirely fair to compare those)
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