What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby CSE » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:54 am

After much reflection, I would say: I am willing to drop almost everything, including first person flying of a spaceship.

:shock:

:wtf:

OK - for those still around, here is the reason I said that:
I was actually very much impressed by many of the "small widgets" or test beds (mostly graphical) that Josh threw at us during the video updates in the good'old times: the planet generator, the ship generator, the space station generator and so on. These had a graphical value and an entertainment value on their own, independently of being part of the ressource creation for the game.
This is what I mean: https://youtu.be/0tPdbLe3zx0?list=PL6JNDrmtKBqp4OShF6rccdsUFSLTq9_cY&t=1639.

So my proposition to keep the hype going is to release as "entertainment" (e.g. without any warranty, and knowing these are not actual part of the current code base for the game) those test beds (hopefully he can just pull them from a backup, not a new python version of it nor spending any time to make them better than they are) one after the other say one every (expected remaining month of development)/(number of such testbeds-1) month, while keeping the "number of such testbeds" secret.
This would be a new whole forum with "the nicest screenshot with testbed X or Y".
The cost may be to spend few hours in making the tested standalone, i.e. stopping any other feature to be used.

Then the release of the game would be the finished game, not a stripped down buggy thingy just to gain one month...

Just a thought.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby BFett » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:25 am

The ship test bed alone would probably be fun to play with for several months before it started to get old. I'd even like it more if the users were able to play with the ship algorithms so that we can have "code the best ship algorithm" contests. I'm sure that if we all spent several months working on the code while Josh works on gameplay we could have some very nice ship design mods by the time 1.0 goes live.

We could then do the same thing for space stations, research stations, and ships of particular classes or functions. I can see how this would keep us from getting annoying for a long time.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby mcsven » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:55 pm

So, given the latest JOSHPOST, I think this topic warrants further discussion.

I'm going to be guided here by Flat's suggestion, and not worry about the Kickstarter promises.

At this point, my intuition about the state of the game - and particularly the bits of the game that don't fall into under the umbrella of FPLT - are that Josh has enough established tech to create and release Freelancer 1.5 as LT 1.0. In other words, recreate the majority of Freelancer's central mechanics, drop in a few new tricks, and then release. For me the few new tricks would be:

  • Upgraded graphics
  • Procedurally generated finite universe, complete with differentiated systems using warp lanes
  • Procedurally generated ships and NPCs
  • Scanning
  • Ship editor

Once he's got something out of the door and stable, he can work on LT 1+ to solve the greater problems to satisfy his KS promises.

Thoughts?
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby BFett » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:19 pm

I want him to complete ONLY what he has promised to deliver from the Kickstarter. This of course brings be back to my favorite thread called "Unofficial list of features" where I state items that were in the FAQ at one point which Josh had stated needed to be complete for the 1.0 release.

With one of the recent previous updates Josh has verified that VR support has been completed so let's pretend that one is finished at the moment. That leaves us with "Importing / exporting of ship designs and sharing them with other players, Automated turrets, and Tracking of discoveries". The last of which was at least partially completed in one of the Road to Beta Updates.

What this means is that Josh likely has a bit of feature creep which is preventing him from making 1.0 exactly what he promised and nothing more. This means that Unstable Wormholes needs to be scrapped for the time being along with anything else that we aren't supposed to be getting. Honestly, the game we want now appears to be 2 features away from completion, so Josh should either work on finishing those up or save them for a 1.1 update. In my opinion the game is done. Give us a stable build of it and then continue working on it while the backers are satisfied. This will also help his financial situation if he releases the game on the site for a while before going to a third party.

If code is the bottleneck, cut features we don't need until the game is running at 60 fps. Or better yet, give us the last stable build of the game and let us play that as a closed beta.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby kaeroku » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:27 pm

About five light years at light speed.

Due to relativity, that would give Josh essentially five years of development time which we would not experience simultaneously.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Flatfingers » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:18 pm

Lo! I have created a poll for this.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Zanteogo » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:58 pm

After 2 years of mostly sideways progress, I would say cut anything that would prevent a release of the game within the next year. Attach a "promise" to keep working on getting everything added afterwards with free updates.

Let's be honest here, LT can only stay in development for a finite amount of time. At some point it's going to all collapse (probably from Josh running out of money at some point)
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Black--Snow » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:17 am

Absolutely nothing. I've waited years for LT and I'm confident to say that I am willing to wait longer to get LT in all its possible glory right from the beginning.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby bkdevil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:57 pm

I'm in the "cut nothing" camp. I admit that I bought into the Kickstarter looking for a "Freelancer 2" or a procedurally generated EV Nova, but after following Josh's thinking and dreaming in his dev logs I'm now totally onboard with seeing the game as it exists inside Josh's head. I want to see Limit Theory in its fully realized form. I can accept the possibility that maybe this game is not possible in the real world and so maybe it will never materialize, but there will be (and already are) other games that can be Freelancer 2. There is only one game that can be LT as it is supposed to be.

:geek: :D
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby mcsven » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:01 pm

I think the original question which I posed at the start of the thread has been forgotten somewhat, or that's my perception. I said this in the first post:

I wrote:As per the title, what features that we think Josh is working on would you be willing to cut from v1 in order to accelerate its release? Note when I say cut I don't mean "will never appear in LT", I just mean it would come in updates after the game is released - similar to the Kickstarter stretch goals.

In this regard I'm also in the "cut nothing" camp - however I think we can be a little more pragmatic, and admit that V1 doesn't have to be the final version he ever releases.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Zanteogo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:32 pm

mcsven wrote:I think the original question which I posed at the start of the thread has been forgotten somewhat, or that's my perception. I said this in the first post:

I wrote:As per the title, what features that we think Josh is working on would you be willing to cut from v1 in order to accelerate its release? Note when I say cut I don't mean "will never appear in LT", I just mean it would come in updates after the game is released - similar to the Kickstarter stretch goals.

In this regard I'm also in the "cut nothing" camp - however I think we can be a little more pragmatic, and admit that V1 doesn't have to be the final version he ever releases.


This is what I think perhaps some people may not be looking at.

"Cut nothing" is easy to say. However, I believe it may not be a realistic possibility for LT 1.0. Just because it's cut from the release version doesn't mean it won't be added afterwards.

As I said in my last post, Josh has an finite amount of time to work on LT. Holding out for a feature full 1.0 release might mean never seeing the game, at all.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Talvieno » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:39 pm

Zanteogo wrote:After 2 years of mostly sideways progress, I would say cut anything that would prevent a release of the game within the next year. Attach a "promise" to keep working on getting everything added afterwards with free updates.

Let's be honest here, LT can only stay in development for a finite amount of time. At some point it's going to all collapse (probably from Josh running out of money at some point)

I personally agree with this - except I would replace "within the next year" with "before he runs out of money". If Josh can finish it before then, that's great! Don't cut a thing. If he can't, he ought to work on cutting a few things out - but just temporarily. It's better than running out of money. After he releases he could figure out how to add them in with patches.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby Zanteogo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:42 pm

Talvieno wrote:
Zanteogo wrote:After 2 years of mostly sideways progress, I would say cut anything that would prevent a release of the game within the next year. Attach a "promise" to keep working on getting everything added afterwards with free updates.

Let's be honest here, LT can only stay in development for a finite amount of time. At some point it's going to all collapse (probably from Josh running out of money at some point)

I personally agree with this - except I would replace "within the next year" with "before he runs out of money". If Josh can finish it before then, that's great! Don't cut a thing. If he can't, he ought to work on cutting a few things out - but just temporarily. It's better than running out of money. After he releases he could figure out how to add them in with patches.


I picture something like the continuous development of Minecraft.

With a game as complex as this, with only a single person working on it, it may be the only realistic option.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby bkdevil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:46 pm

Zanteogo wrote:This is what I think perhaps some people may not be looking at.

"Cut nothing" is easy to say. However, I believe it may not be a realistic possibility for LT 1.0. Just because it's cut from the release version doesn't mean it won't be added afterwards.

As I said in my last post, Josh has an finite amount of time to work on LT. Holding out for a feature full 1.0 release might mean never seeing the game, at all.


I read all the posts leading up to this one. I understand where you're coming from, but my answer is still going to be "cut nothing". I want to see LT 1.0 as it exists in Josh's dream. I don't want to play LT Lite tomorrow and then the full version in 2 years. I'd rather wait out the 2 years. And if waiting for a feature truly means that the game can never, ever exist, oh well. There are a thousand other games out there that have *some* of the features LT 1.0 is supposed to have (and possibly all of them if we start cutting features), I can just play them.
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Re: What would you cut from v1 to accelerate its release?

Postby bkdevil » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:56 pm

And I know you're going to say "but LT 1.0 could still exist, it would just take longer after release!" And I realize that, but it's not a guarantee. I wouldn't blame Josh for feeling such a relief after getting a watered down version of LT to the masses that he flat out decides to work on something else.
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