What he said ^

Don't get me wrong I love playing Elite Dangerous (as everyone knows ) but LT is something different, completely different to ED and other games out there, something in my view, worth waiting for.

Also, you know something, it's a damned nice community here. Most other forums would have ripped each other apart over the delays to the game, here it's supportive and calm. It's a really nice thing to see and it's a big reason I keep coming back.

Stay Classy LT!

AbhChallenger wrote: Why are we all still here?

1) I like the people here a lot
2) REKT

But yes, agreed, would still buy LT in a heartbeat whenever it comes out.

Josh said a thing on Reddit
what is this madness

Dinosawer wrote:Josh said a thing on Reddit
what is this madness

As I've mentioned before, my concern is not that the scripting language and Josh's own scripts won't be powerful enough.

It's that they will be so elegant, so much the rarefied constructions of a single remarkable mind working in isolation for three years, that I will be utterly unable to comprehend any of it, much less successfully mod any part of it more complicated than a text string.

The idea of having to admit I'm the equivalent of a caveman trying to operate a nuclear power plant is already embarrassing me, and we're probably still months away from LT's initial release.

Fortunately, as Josh says in his comments, there are some sharp people here, and I'm sure more will show up when LT is released. So at least I'll get to enjoy some great mods, even if I can't make them myself.

Exciting times ahead!

Dinosawer wrote:Josh said a thing on Reddit
what is this madness

Hmm, I was actually thinking why doesn't Josh say stuff like that here or at least provide a link to what he says elsewhere. Thanks Dino, I wouldn't have seen this without your link.

Flatfingers wrote:As I've mentioned before, my concern is not that the scripting language and Josh's own scripts won't be powerful enough.

It's that they will be so elegant, so much the rarefied constructions of a single remarkable mind working in isolation for three years, that I will be utterly unable to comprehend any of it, much less successfully mod any part of it more complicated than a text string.

The idea of having to admit I'm the equivalent of a caveman trying to operate a nuclear power plant is already embarrassing me, and we're probably still months away from LT's initial release.

Fortunately, as Josh says in his comments, there are some sharp people here, and I'm sure more will show up when LT is released. So at least I'll get to enjoy some great mods, even if I can't make them myself.

If we get what you imagine Flat he has failed in the modability aspect of the game. If LT modability ends up being only in the domain of those who are educated in the ways of the coding warrior it will be useless to the vast majority of the player base.

Why would you be embarrassed? I can't compose music like François Jolin or write blogs like you. It doesn't embarrass me. Each to his own.

I'm not sure what your expectations are concerning LT. I'm here for the game I was promised in the KS. I suspect that, like Gavan's Voxel Quest, there are a number here who are mainly or wholly interested in something else.

Victor Tombs wrote:I suspect that, like Gavan's Voxel Quest, there are a number here who are mainly or wholly interested in something else.

I'm here for a fun space game with many things to do, good NPCs, in-depth combat, and an utter lack of connection errors.

--IronDuke

+1 and then some

Victor Tombs wrote:If we get what you imagine Flat he has failed in the modability aspect of the game. If LT modability ends up being only in the domain of those who are educated in the ways of the coding warrior it will be useless to the vast majority of the player base.

I think that' s a little bit harsh. We really can't expect Teh Josh to create an engine that can be modded without coding experience of any kind if we want LT released any time before Josh becomes a jaded old man!

I don't think that's what Victor meant - "the ways of the coding warrior" is coding on a level that most of us who can program haven't reached, even if we're fairly proficient at it.

mcsven wrote:I think that' s a little bit harsh. We really can't expect Teh Josh to create an engine that can be modded without coding experience of any kind if we want LT released any time before Josh becomes a jaded old man!

I'm frequently harsh when it comes to the work being done by Josh, mcsven. Chances are he might read my comment, probably chuckle for a while, and then continue doing whatever he's doing at the moment. I think he knows me and my ways by now.

I seriously would like to see the players have a chance to participate in the modding process without having to have a CV similar to the one that Josh possesses. I don't know how unreasonable that is but LT is supposed to be a revolutionary game.

As to the jaded old man part. If development stretches out for that length of time this sometimes jaded old man will be dead...probably. I want the coding warrior to move on to other projects before I snuff it.

I particularly want to see MorrowJosh.

And thank you Dino.

I'm here to kill RPG chars and play LT, and I'm all out of LT.

Talvieno wrote:I'm here to kill RPG chars and play LT, and I'm all out of LT.

*suggests Tonon*

Dinosawer wrote:I don't think that's what Victor meant - "the ways of the coding warrior" is coding on a level that most of us who can program haven't reached, even if we're fairly proficient at it.

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

Maybe the best word here is "idiom." Any programming language powerful enough to write general-purpose programs is expressive enough to allow different idioms to form -- different but distinctly recognizable ways of saying the same thing, but some of which are more obscure than others. Brace styles in C are just one trivial example. The more expressive the language, the larger the number and more arcane the forms of the idioms that emerge.

What I'm wondering is whether the idioms that Josh is creating for how he's writing the features of LT will be too hard for us regular programmers to understand. Part of this comes from his absolute determination to work entirely on his own. In a team, it's almost always the case that different people, for whatever reasons, have different levels of coding ability. So written coding standards are promulgated to insure that everyone uses and can understand (and maintain, and enhance) the code that everyone else on the team writes. Simplicity and clarity are, for most software (other than crazy low-level system code like device drivers and highly performance-dependent routines), more valuable than elegance, terseness, and high abstraction. And that is because obvious code -- even if it's slightly less performant -- maximizes the number of people who can improve it.

But it's been only Josh, with his mad skillz, for three years.

I may be completely mistaken, and Josh is consciously keeping his script code simple and relatively idiom-free so that regular programmers can, with some reasonable effort, understand it. I hope that's the case. I just don't know if that's one of his priorities.

Flatfingers wrote:

Dinosawer wrote:I don't think that's what Victor meant - "the ways of the coding warrior" is coding on a level that most of us who can program haven't reached, even if we're fairly proficient at it.

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

Maybe the best word here is "idiom." Any programming language powerful enough to write general-purpose programs is expressive enough to allow different idioms to form -- different but distinctly recognizable ways of saying the same thing, but some of which are more obscure than others. Brace styles in C are just one trivial example. The more expressive the language, the larger the number and more arcane the forms of the idioms that emerge.

What I'm wondering is whether the idioms that Josh is creating for how he's writing the features of LT will be too hard for us regular programmers to understand. Part of this comes from his absolute determination to work entirely on his own. In a team, it's almost always the case that different people, for whatever reasons, have different levels of coding ability. So written coding standards are promulgated to insure that everyone uses and can understand (and maintain, and enhance) the code that everyone else on the team writes. Simplicity and clarity are, for most software (other than crazy low-level system code like device drivers and highly performance-dependent routines), more valuable than elegance, terseness, and high abstraction. And that is because obvious code -- even if it's slightly less performant -- maximizes the number of people who can improve it.

But it's been only Josh, with his mad skillz, for three years.

I may be completely mistaken, and Josh is consciously keeping his script code simple and relatively idiom-free so that regular programmers can, with some reasonable effort, understand it. I hope that's the case. I just don't know if that's one of his priorities.

Genius Derived Code Obfuscation eh? I like the theory.

We can surely test it though: Teh Josh can simply post a small snippet and we can try and determine what it does. The hard bit would appear to be getting Josh's attention...

Hmm... what to ask for, though?

Something considered typical so that we could know the general level of hairiness?

Or something toward the high end of the Trickiness scale so that we could know the upper limit on hairiness?