While this is not the time to try to answer the question, it may in fact be a good time to start discussion around it. As we all know Josh is working on slowly getting back into a highly productive work schedule while still maintaining a healthy work-life balance. It may be weeks or even months before he has established what that right balance for him is going to be. Only after that will he be able to revise his schedule and we'll all know what the new ETA looks like.

In the meantime, my question is: Should Josh seek help with some of the aspects of LT?

Yes, I know Josh has never really embraced the idea, LT is his baby after all, but it is no secret to anyone that developing a game (and all the things that go along with it) is a massive undertaking... it is just plain HARD. Given Josh' recent situation and his underlying need for perfectionism, trying to go it alone the rest of the way may not be in anyone's best interest.

Now I'm not talking about core development here, I think we all want Josh focused on that (he'd never give it up anyway ) but there are tonnes of other stuff LT needs and I don't think Josh needs to do them. Consider this website for instance, he has a few trusted folks doing moderator duty here because you can't run a forum and develop a game at the same time. Well I think he could also offload a bunch of other stuff like the monthly updates for example. Why not have Josh do an outline of things he wants to showcase and let someone else do the hours/days of video editing and naration work? Would it be a Josh update? No. Would it be perfect? No. Frankly, those are the wrong questions. If we want this game anytime before 2021 the only question is would it be good enough to be worth Josh having those hours/days available to do real development work.

Again, this is just an example, maybe the monthly updates provide Josh a much needed break from coding. I don't know. My point is that there are many non-core things Josh has to deal with that could be offloaded, the question is should he? I know there would be a bunch of volunteers

Its been discussed before, the general consensus is he's too deep in the project to bring someone onboard now without it actually hurting rather than helping.

For coding sure, I would agree. What I dont understand is how that logic applies to other items like monthly updates or RTBs or whatever other peripheral items can be farmed out.

This is not an appropriate thing for the community to discuss. This is entirely Josh's decision. Us discussing, debating, choosing is of absolutely no consequence.

TGS wrote:This is not an appropriate thing for the community to discuss.

I don't agree but ok, your opinion is noted.

TSG wrote:This is entirely Josh's decision.

Obviously

TSG wrote:Us discussing, debating, choosing is of absolutely no consequence.

Perhaps, but what I thought may come out of this discussion was the identification of areas where it is reasonable to assume help could be provided and maybe have people volunteer to provide Josh some support in those areas, at which point an offer could be made to Josh to provide that help and support.

Do you think he is going to ask for help on his own? Maybe he says "Thanks, but no thanks", I thought it might be worth asking...

maxrsp wrote:For coding sure, I would agree. What I dont understand is how that logic applies to other items like monthly updates or RTBs or whatever other peripheral items can be farmed out.

Mainly it would be a matter of trust.

And what has anyone done to earn "that" level of trust?


Aside from that, i agree with TGS

maxrsp wrote:

TSG wrote:Us discussing, debating, choosing is of absolutely no consequence.

Perhaps, but what I thought may come out of this discussion was the identification of areas where it is reasonable to assume help could be provided and maybe have people volunteer to provide Josh some support in those areas, at which point an offer could be made to Josh to provide that help and support.

Do you think he is going to ask for help on his own? Maybe he says "Thanks, but no thanks", I thought it might be worth asking...

If this had come up a year or two ago I might have agreed with you. Now, no. Furthermore with his ongoing mental health issues any person that was put in any position to help him would have to be exceptionally careful not to step on his toes so to speak. I wasn't meaning to shoot the idea down without consideration. Just providing and integrating this on any level at this point would be more work than is reasonable both for that person as well as Josh.

The idea was tossed around whilst Josh was still away about him appointing a community manager of sorts to help bridge the community, but anything Josh could say to a CM he can say to us himself. Adding a middleman would serve little to no use. Really the only way you could put in an additional team member would be to have them hook up a USB cord from Josh's brain to their own because I think a lot of what Josh does is on the fly and he does in his head. Sadly this is a one man band and it kind of has to be.

Okay, it's bugging me.

First off, Josh is not some kind of invalid, he just burned himself out, it's not like he is sitting in the corner babbling and drooling all over himself. Second, turn the tables around and put yourself in his place, would you really feel great if all the people around you kept on patting you on the back and saying how sorry they are you went crazy even though you really only suffered the consequences of bad sleep and eating habits (the energy drinks probably didn't help either)?

So get a grip and cut the guy some slack, sheesh. I know that most people are only trying to help, but as I said, put yourself in his place, and then ask yourself, is this something I would consider "help."

Personally, I would not be enthused to constantly hear about my recent problems. The initial, "glad to see you back," comments would be enough, anything more than that would just be like rubbing salt in a wound.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

I'm one of the people who've offered help to Josh in any area he might feel he could use.
My main "problem" with the development of LT so far has been the lack of a plan (or the lack of a plan being stuck to, which is different), and I think Josh2.0 has absolutely the right idea when he said that he's working on a schedule (i.e. a plan) now.

In 30 years of development, I've never heard of any project of reasonable size that succeeded in any reasonable degree without a plan, and planning is one of the things that separates amateurs from professionals.

Josh2.0 is on the nose to be making this first, because it'll make it easier to work on components and crucially, *to know when to stop*. I think that with this plan, completing LT becomes at least 10x easier, and he'll be able to see if there are any areas that may need help in some way much more clearly.

I, and I'm sure many others, would be more than happy to help with this plan or anything else Josh2.0 may need, and I know that he knows this (if only because he's read my PM). I don't think there's much value in discussing amongst ourselves because we have no basis on which to make any decisions, however, as others have said, I don't believe that any subject should be banned from discussion and I think we should all be a lot more tolerant of people asking anything that's on their minds - as Josh2.0 has said, we're all on the same side here and as long as we're not being offensive to man or beast, there's no reason for anyone to be negative about it.

Ringu wrote:I'm one of the people who've offered help to Josh in any area he might feel he could use.
My main "problem" with the development of LT so far has been the lack of a plan (or the lack of a plan being stuck to, which is different), and I think Josh2.0 has absolutely the right idea when he said that he's working on a schedule (i.e. a plan) now.

He has always had a plan. It's just been very fluid, dynamic and has shifted a lot. Which is not uncommon. His issues weren't directly related to the lack of a plan, it was related to the fluidity of said plan. Something he appears to be working on rectifying.

Well it was just an idea offered up in the spirit of helping out. If the majority of people here support the alternative - Josh going back to doing it exectly the same way as before only slower, then great. Rock on.

I didn't ask the question out of pity, I asked it because a one man development approach for a project this size is inherently problem proned and since Josh is at a bit of a reset point maybe he would be open to trying something different. Surely I'm not the only one to wonder why he got burnt out in the first place??? Well trying to do everything himself, on a schedule, and to his standards, must certainly have been a factor in it.

And since Poet wanted to tell me what was bugging him, here's one that bugs me:

Some people on here are still acting like everything was great up right up until Josh worked himself into exhaustion. News flash: It wasn't. Missed deadline after missed deadline, update committments broken almost as soon as they were made, etc. None of these things reflect on Josh as a person other than his approach was flawed and he couldn't compensate for it no matter how hard he worked. He was trying, I think thats obvious to everyone, but I'm not going to accept conclusions based some peoples short or delusional memories that say "just let him get back to work as normal" cause that's what landed him here in the first place.

But hey, if not offering to help the guy is the Internet concensus, I guess it must be right...

TGS wrote:

Ringu wrote:I'm one of the people who've offered help to Josh in any area he might feel he could use.
My main "problem" with the development of LT so far has been the lack of a plan (or the lack of a plan being stuck to, which is different)

He has always had a plan. It's just been very fluid, dynamic and has shifted a lot. Which is not uncommon. His issues weren't directly related to the lack of a plan, it was related to the fluidity of said plan. Something he appears to be working on rectifying.

...which sounds exactly like not actually having a plan.

As I said, the lack of a plan being stuck to is a different thing, but it has the same consequences. Development is unfocused, doesn't know when to stop or what to work on to make actual progress towards a specific goal of release (or beta or alpha or whatever).

"A plan" is when you have a list of things that need to be done, broken down into sufficient detail that you can see every sub-task at such a level that you can reasonably accurately estimate it; and then you follow that plan.

You may (will) encounter things you've forgotten, things that don't work the way you've planned, things that take longer than estimated, and things that are quicker than estimated or things that turn out to be unnecessary for one reason or another: the mark of a professional is being able to finish one task and then move on to the next, and not suddenly decide that you need a completely new major system or systems to be added without then planning that and where it fits in the plan.

The reason for the additional (approaching) 18 months' on the kickstarter date so far, is because Josh didn't have a plan, or he didn't have a plan in sufficient detail, or his estimates were wildly wrong continually, or he kept deviating from the plan in major ways and not re-planning to cope with these deviations. Or failing to do one of these steps.

maxrsp is absolutely correct that something needs to change, and my point was that Josh2.0 seems to understand this and seems to be making the changes that, to me as a development professional, make sense.

Poet1960 wrote:even though you really only suffered the consequences of bad sleep and eating habits.

Wow, that's a relief. I though he had some serious debilitating issues over the last several months. Good to know he just needs to sleep and eat more.

I would think of a person that is around him for real (not a community manager on the other end of the world) and takes away some daily routine thing like making good food (yeah not the junk food Josh was talking about), cloth washing, house keeping ect. and on the same time he could need another person some kind of project manager that keeps an eye on Josh sticking to his own plans. He makes plans but gets distracted from sticking to his own plans by a too high standard of quality, perfectism. He cant manage himself, he is really bad at finding the balance between work and life. Some money spend on the house keeping person would be smart spent.

maxrsp wrote:Well it was just an idea offered up in the spirit of helping out. If the majority of people here support the alternative - Josh going back to doing it exectly the same way as before only slower, then great. Rock on.

I didn't ask the question out of pity, I asked it because a one man development approach for a project this size is inherently problem proned and since Josh is at a bit of a reset point maybe he would be open to trying something different. Surely I'm not the only one to wonder why he got burnt out in the first place??? Well trying to do everything himself, on a schedule, and to his standards, must certainly have been a factor in it.

And since Poet wanted to tell me what was bugging him, here's one that bugs me:

Some people on here are still acting like everything was great up right up until Josh worked himself into exhaustion. News flash: It wasn't. Missed deadline after missed deadline, update committments broken almost as soon as they were made, etc. None of these things reflect on Josh as a person other than his approach was flawed and he couldn't compensate for it no matter how hard he worked. He was trying, I think thats obvious to everyone, but I'm not going to accept conclusions based some peoples short or delusional memories that say "just let him get back to work as normal" cause that's what landed him here in the first place.

But hey, if not offering to help the guy is the Internet concensus, I guess it must be right...

Well it wasn't really directed at you personally, I just didn't want to start a whole new thread, so I borrowed yours.