N810 wrote:Seriously Josh 2 months ????

Post or we put your face on a milk carton on Monday.

1 month and 6 days does not equal 2 months.

Scytale wrote:If by giving you a refund he admits to doing the wrong thing, what does that say to the rest of us? Is it an admission of having screwed up on the project? I think that even if he has done something wrong with the project, he would have little reason to admit it so readily. Then again, depending on his character, he might just give the refund anyway with a message of 'I understand your anger, and give you a refund, but I am still working on this with a full intent to release as soon as possible.' I think this is maybe a bit more likely.

That's an excellent point. All I really want is for Josh to *understand* that by not talking to us, he's doing the wrong thing, and making a bad situation worse, and that it's gone on long enough that he needs to rethink his current plan. I'm a developer of long standing; I understand delays. But I also understand that the way you deal with them is to tell people. If Josh would just say what's going on as you mention, especially so soon after making a new communication plan, that would be enough for me, I'd be satisfied and put everything down to his inexperience.

2. Again not a lawyer, I'm genuinely curious: are signees to a contract legally obligated to enforce the terms of the contract if the other party doesn't fulfill them? I.e. Is Kickstarter required to follow up a dud who defaults on the terms? Considering the only party theoretically 'suffering' from the breach of contract, from the point of view of the contract, would be Kickstarter, I think it's unlikely they would be required by law to chase down offenders.

My understanding is that a contract can only be enforced by the interested parties; but that if Kickstarter wants to parade the line that Creators have a legal requirement to Backers, then at some point they have to take action or admit that it isn't true, and they wouldn't do anything under any circumstances once they've been paid. I think this would be a massive PR problem for them. Part of my intent in 8 days and counting is to start investigating this more and to find out directly from Kickstarter what this legal requirement is.

Have you considered simply sending Josh an email or PM asking for a refund?

I haven't; because a refund is not what I want. I've sent him some PM's asking him to tell us what's happening, but with no response.

Otherwise, I don't know dude, as someone who is more than occasionally skeptical of Josh's methods, I think it's early days yet.

It is early if you're only considering the Month Of Silence, but I think we have to look at the bigger picture of two and a bit years and say that this game isn't getting made, that Josh has failed to deliver, and that now he's stopped even telling us that he's trying.
Maybe this isn't early days any more, maybe we need to smell the coffee.

Personally I think he considers the forum a distraction and is doing a hard detox of it while pushing for beta, and that we'll hear back from him in another month or so. I still think it's very unprofessional to just drop the update schedule like he did, but I'm not sure it points to wrongdoing.

Absolutely; my expression of his wrongdoing wasn't based on evidence, just fear. I can well understand forums being a distraction, I'd actually be happier if I thought that he understood he has to have a plan and focus on it, but it's the revelation of a new communication plan and then shortly after ceasing all comms for longer than he's done since before the campaign started, that's wrong and bad and unprofessional and just needs to change.

There's no indication from Josh's family that he has a health problem, so please relax. The most likely explanation is that Josh is working, or resting, and will be back. Going silent is not a particularly good way to handle things but we all have behavior quirks.

It is early if you're only considering the Month Of Silence, but I think we have to look at the bigger picture of two and a bit years and say that this game isn't getting made, that Josh has failed to deliver, and that now he's stopped even telling us that he's trying.
Maybe this isn't early days any more, maybe we need to smell the coffee.

...

Absolutely; my expression of his wrongdoing wasn't based on evidence, just fear. I can well understand forums being a distraction, I'd actually be happier if I thought that he understood he has to have a plan and focus on it, but it's the revelation of a new communication plan and then shortly after ceasing all comms for longer than he's done since before the campaign started, that's wrong and bad and unprofessional and just needs to change.

Fair points. Regarding the Kickstarter TOS; I think they're very tetchy about being too involved in legal action against the project creator. I say this because the TOS we've been discussing were those that Josh's project operated under when it was on pitch. The current TOS read, in part:

If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

...which to me at least in spirit allows for potential backer legal action against the creator on the part of the backers. It sounds stricter with regard to the creator, but in the language (to me) it emphasises more the relationship with the backers than the relationship with Kickstarter. My point is, it looks to me that Kickstarter simply wants to be assured that when the project was in its funding stages, the pitch was done in good faith: as long as that is met, what happens after funding is between the creator and the backers.

So if you really want to pursue some legal action against Josh... it may be possible, but I don't think Kickstarter will be much help beyond quoting their TOS back at them.

I also think that to have any case against Josh - early days or not - there would have to be a much stronger evidence, like with what's happening with Clang... and even with Clang, I haven't heard any more about that class action suit some backers were talking about. Personally I think the last two years, up to RTB, were not signs of Josh not able to complete the project, but rather signs that his methodology (perhaps in PR, perhaps more broadly) is imperfect; from that perspective, this sudden silence is unlikely to be conclusive evidence of the project having stopped.

gruntilda651 wrote:There's no indication from Josh's family that he has a health problem, so please relax. The most likely explanation is that Josh is working, or resting, and will be back. Going silent is not a particularly good way to handle things but we all have behavior quirks.

I know I don't want to sound like an idiot, but the dozen other people saying all sorts of allegations makes every post less likely to being real. However, your only two post son the forums suggest that you at least know the family.

Does this guy not have an email/phone you can call? It's creepy, yes but I'm curious whether he's alive or not.

Langis wrote:Does this guy not have an email/phone you can call? It's creepy, yes but I'm curious whether he's alive or not.

listen

he's probably fine

Grumblesaur wrote:

Alright, breaks over people! Back to work.

shoutintothevoid wrote:Hey, long time lurker of the game and Josh's progress here. I found something on the internet which may be unrelated but makes me think that he may have had a death in the family which would understandingly be responsible for his absence. I am not sure if this is Josh's father or not and don't plan on looking into it any further. If it is, my condolences go out to him and his family. If not then I apologize for fanning the flames of the speculation.

http://carterfuneralhomeinc.com/obituar ... k-parnell/

Unless Josh's father re-married, the wife's name does not match the name of our Josh's mother.

Don't ask.

Edit: Also, as someone else pointed out, if you do the facebook thing you with find another Josh who lost his father the same date.

So original theory's still stand. Josh has been taken by Aliens.

Yes Josh has his email posted publicly, no it's not easy to find.

I do. If there was a severe problem involving Josh, I'd know.

Beyond that, I respect Josh's privacy and won't inquire about what's happening wrt LT (nor would I post about it if I knew). I think he's handling things in an unfortunate way but that's Josh's business.

Not that easy to find? I found a generic email within 2 minutes of googling.

How about if Limit Theory has been bought by another company?

devastat wrote:How about if Limit Theory has been bought by another company?

They would have proudly announced it, not jeopardized their investment by going dark...