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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#271
Well said. Josh comes across as an earnest perfectionist, but he will suffer from a perception problem the longer he hides from public contact. That perception problem is the vaporware/cool engine one. I think we still trust that he'll come up with a playable game, but every "broken promise" on public engagement makes things worse.

We've all said before that public engagement really does not have to be a productivity interruption. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive update, it doesn't have to be perfect. The content doesn't have to be finished. It can have "dev textures" and unresolved problems. It can be as simple as "I have 2 minutes, I'll post a screenshot with some text to kickstarter." Josh seems to have anxiety around this, and he isn't self-aware enough in that arena to realize that this anxiety isn't going to go away just because he changes update schedules. What he has to change is his mentality towards updating kickstarter. Drop the perfectionist attitude on PR - anything is better than nothing at all.
Spacecredentials: looks at stars sometimes, cheated at X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, killed a titan once.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#272
fatmop wrote:Well said. Josh comes across as an earnest perfectionist, but he will suffer from a perception problem the longer he hides from public contact. That perception problem is the vaporware/cool engine one. I think we still trust that he'll come up with a playable game, but every "broken promise" on public engagement makes things worse.

We've all said before that public engagement really does not have to be a productivity interruption. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive update, it doesn't have to be perfect. The content doesn't have to be finished. It can have "dev textures" and unresolved problems. It can be as simple as "I have 2 minutes, I'll post a screenshot with some text to kickstarter." Josh seems to have anxiety around this, and he isn't self-aware enough in that arena to realize that this anxiety isn't going to go away just because he changes update schedules. What he has to change is his mentality towards updating kickstarter. Drop the perfectionist attitude on PR - anything is better than nothing at all.
Well I don't know, I wouldn't care if we are gonna get nothing. As long as we know that fact. As of right now we're just sitting here scratching our heads wondering when he'll return, confident that he will in fact return. What will he return with? We don't know. Will he take a month a dev time crunching away then just announce "Beta's here!" we don't know. But I personally hate the speculation, and the negativity that speculation causes. Something I know I've contributed to as much as some others. I trust Josh, but I'd really like him to cut back on the theatrics when he does post. The information style he produces needs to be less like a drama or reality TV series and more like a developer giving an actual update with actual information. All this being my opinion of course.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#273
Eh, some of his showmanship is what gets people really interested in the first place. I only agree with that insofar as he seemed to be converting to a much more bare-bones, developer-style update process in RTB.
Spacecredentials: looks at stars sometimes, cheated at X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, killed a titan once.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#276
People being worried about the update so late... I'm not concerned with the RTB update in the slightest. It will happen when it happens and I'm confident that next time we do get an update Josh will blow everyone away with his new awesome piece of code.

What I AM worried about however, is Josh's health. From his last RTB 'All jokes aside, I really am a "bit" on the crazy side right now from the past two sleepless days'. Spending sleepless night after sleepless night is not good for one's health. If I spent 48 hours without sleep I'd go crazy :crazy: .

Josh please remember that your health and sanity should be priority #1 and LT can come 2nd in that list.
"I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies but not the madness of people." -Issac Newton
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#277
josh may be a coding god, but just like any god, people stop believing when they dont get a reply.. or a sign.
if josh doesnt have 10 seconds to write a devlog, what makes ya'll think he has time to read our comments?
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup

"A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems."
- Paul Erdos (1913-1996)
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#280
Cross-posting this here so that everyone can see it;
DWMagus wrote:Looks like I need to clarify a few things.

There's a big difference between "posting negativity" and honest discussion. There is also a big difference between honest discussion and "posting nothing but positives". There are also ways to phrase concerns and issues you may have in a way that generates calm discussion.

BFett is right on the money. Over reactions and messages of hate are the ones that we're trying to avoid. Honest discussion is fine. More than likely, it'll be more of a PM to take care of those that keep posting that stuff rather than locking threads or warnings.

If we felt that someone went too far, we would PM them about it. If you haven't received a PM, then you're fine. There are some posts that have gone a bit far, but for the most part, it's been dialed back quite a bit.

Think of this as more of an extension off of the forum rule #1 -- Be respectful. This applies towards Josh and the process he's taking as well.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#281
Flatfingers wrote:What makes you believe there will be any updates, devlogs, or comments from Josh until he announces the beta?
QFT (despite the deletion of his post)
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#282
Since it's back out there, I'll also add the preface I originally had for that question, which was: this is not intended to provoke anyone, and it's not asked out of any anger, bitterness, or other negative emotion.

I'm sincerely curious: what evidence is there that leads anyone to believe that Josh will be providing any more updates, devlogs, or forum comments before the announcement of the beta?
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#283
Flatfingers wrote:Since it's back out there, I'll also add the preface I originally had for that question, which was: this is not intended to provoke anyone, and it's not asked out of any anger, bitterness, or other negative emotion.

I'm sincerely curious: what evidence is there that leads anyone to believe that Josh will be providing any more updates, devlogs, or forum comments before the announcement of the beta?
Well, he said there would be weekly updates. When the update was a bit late he popped in to say that he wasn't really concerned with the updates slipping a couple of days because work was going really well.
It's a bit of a stretch from that to "no more updates ever". :ghost:

Edit: And in the same post he literally said he would write devlogs soon™.
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#284
Dinosawer wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:Since it's back out there, I'll also add the preface I originally had for that question, which was: this is not intended to provoke anyone, and it's not asked out of any anger, bitterness, or other negative emotion.

I'm sincerely curious: what evidence is there that leads anyone to believe that Josh will be providing any more updates, devlogs, or forum comments before the announcement of the beta?
Well, he said there would be weekly updates. When the update was a bit late he popped in to say that he wasn't really concerned with the updates slipping a couple of days because work was going really well.
It's a bit of a stretch from that to "no more updates ever". :ghost:
So your feeling is that "Josh said" counts as satisfactory evidence that we can expect to see more info before beta?

I'm not sure I agree with that, but I did ask an open question, so I'm certainly not going to get argumentative about it.

The point of the question is to ask about expectations. Not long after I switched from being a programmer to a project manager, I realized that there was one thing I could do to keep my customers satisfied -- I called it "no unhappy surprises."

The idea is that it's usually OK to delight people with more than they expected, but it's always undesirable to not meet expectations. So I worked to set a habit of continuously setting and monitoring expectations. We always knew what the customer really wanted, and the customer always knew exactly what they were getting.

The beauty of this system is that it means I can deliver bad news to the customer, usually of the "you're not going to get this thing you wanted when I said I'd give it to you" variety, without losing my job because I've established a pattern of clearly asking for and setting expectations. The customer doesn't get an "unhappy surprise" ("what do you mean that feature isn't in this release?") because I've got them working with me on keeping all of our expectations clearly stated as early in the development process as possible. We know what they want, and they know what we're working on giving them.

I'm not going to generalize that to Limit Theory, or offer any unasked-for advice, other than to say that I'd like to have accurate expectations as we get closer to delivery of LT.

I'm not sure how to get there. :) It just seems to me like a good goal to have.
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Re: The Road to the Beta Series!

#285
You missed my edit. ;)
Yes, I feel that Josh saying that he would do something is evidence of either him going to do something or him going to say that he's not going to do it anymore, since that's how it's always been. Since he hasn't done the latter I'm still assuming the former. It's only been a week after all.
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