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Comments and Criticisms regarding RTB and Post schedule

#1
Humans are funny. We are probably all here for more or less the same thing, this game and what it's shaping up to be, is intriguing and tickles our fancy. It suits our idea of a "space game," and the elements that make up that genre, but...

...I've noticed a trend with this game, or any game in general, that attracts fans, and that is, that over time a strange thing starts to happen. The fans start taking possession of the game, or at least try to, not intentionally I don't think, but arguments will arise about this or that, and great debates will swath the forum with sheets of text propounding the merits of whatever topics may be being discussed.

This forum really isn't too bad in that respect, but it still happens. It seems we sometimes forget that we aren't the ones making the game. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, although I try to keep it to a minimum, and throw out ideas in general, rather than say it's a good or bad idea. This is not directed at anyone in particular either just so everyone knows. I just find the mechanics of it interesting. The example of social interactions as it were.

We inundate Josh with hopes of this or that, or suggestions and wants, and Josh, to his merit or chagrin depending on your viewpoint, often tries to accommodate. This however, can have a nasty side effect of distracting him, and making the process take longer. His post about being more focused on making the game instead of daily updates sort of brought this home in my mind.

I think it's great he listens, and he probably should to some extent, since we are or will be his customers, but in the end, it's HIS game. Luckily for me, from what I've seen, his vision is very close to what I would envision if I were to make a game.

While it creates a great seed bed of info to discuss, debate and put forth our own ideas, I often wonder where the line is between being helpful and just adding more burden to an already heavy load.

I think that what most of us want is a game that will allow us to enjoy hours of doing whatever we want, personally I don't care that much about how many different ships there are, or if they will be drastically different or just slightly different, I don't care about cosmetic stuff like that very much because it has no real effect on game play with a few exceptions like civs or something of that nature. I DO care about the game itself though, the mechanics.

I want to have fun. I don't think I've done a very good job of explaining, but it just feels sometimes like we are unruly children or a swarm of fish waiting for the next piece of food to be thrown in the water. I think we are at times, a bit tedious in our zeal for the game.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#2
Re: The June, 2014 Devlog Discussion
Postby Gazz » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:20 am

Well, it may be his baby but it has a lot of aunts and uncles now...
Aunts and uncles and grandparents and everyone around you will tell you how to raise your kid, it's not done because they think you are incapable(usually), but because they care and want to make sure you aren't forgetting anything.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#3
Hyperion wrote:
Re: The June, 2014 Devlog Discussion
Postby Gazz » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:20 am

Well, it may be his baby but it has a lot of aunts and uncles now...
Aunts and uncles and grandparents and everyone around you will tell you how to raise your kid, it's not done because they think you are incapable(usually), but because they care and want to make sure you aren't forgetting anything.

It's not that you don't care about them or their help, it's that it can become tedious when you have 100 people constantly pulling on your sleeve. ;)
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#4
Personally, I would hope Josh uses our enthusiasm for the game to keep his burning.
I know from previous work, that if you lose motivation it is VERY hard to keep working even when the code flows well. But even one or two people cheering for you and offering ideas can be quite empowering.

But you are correct, this is his game. And so long as he gives us as much control for mods as he has, then, regardless of features, we will all be happy when it is released and people start modding the ever loving bejebus out of it. :lol:
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#5
The Suggestions and Polls forums exist because Josh is interested in hearing ideas and feedback about his game.

I like to think they provide a resource he can go to when he is stuck for inspiration, or just wants to hear alternate views on a topic. However, he is in no way obligated to implement any of the ideas presented (or even read the topics, when he is pressed for time).

If you ask me, its a win-win. The fans get to discuss everything in as much detail as they want, and Josh can come along later and mine the topics for ideas if he needs them.
- The Snark Knight

"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#6
Well, it really all comes down to the individual and their own particular personality, some may thrive on it, others not so much. I guess my concern would be that Josh, in his attempts to please everyone, being the nice guy that he is, may get pulled every which way, but he seems like a pretty smart guy. Thing is, young people, even smart ones, don't have a broader life experience and may not notice those kinds of things.

He has already taken steps to refocus and that is good. I know, I sound like a harbinger of doom, but that's not really my intent. Forewarned is fore armed is more akin to my thinking.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#7
Just_Ice_au wrote:The Suggestions and Polls forums exist because Josh is interested in hearing ideas and feedback about his game.

I like to think they provide a resource he can go to when he is stuck for inspiration, or just wants to hear alternate views on a topic. However, he is in no way obligated to implement any of the ideas presented (or even read the topics, when he is pressed for time).

If you ask me, its a win-win. The fans get to discuss everything in as much detail as they want, and Josh can come along later and mine the topics for ideas if he needs them.

I was afraid this was going to go in this direction. It's not an attack on the discussions of ideas at all. Sigh. Never mind.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#8
Poet1960 wrote:
Just_Ice_au wrote:The Suggestions and Polls forums exist because Josh is interested in hearing ideas and feedback about his game.

I like to think they provide a resource he can go to when he is stuck for inspiration, or just wants to hear alternate views on a topic. However, he is in no way obligated to implement any of the ideas presented (or even read the topics, when he is pressed for time).

If you ask me, its a win-win. The fans get to discuss everything in as much detail as they want, and Josh can come along later and mine the topics for ideas if he needs them.

I was afraid this was going to go in this direction. It's not an attack on the discussions of ideas at all. Sigh. Never mind.
Sorry, I didn't meant to come off as confrontational.

I guess I'm just not convinced that Josh is as "eager to please" as you seem to be implying.

If I've misread your intent, I apologise.
- The Snark Knight

"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#9
Just_Ice_au wrote:
Poet1960 wrote:
Just_Ice_au wrote:The Suggestions and Polls forums exist because Josh is interested in hearing ideas and feedback about his game.

I like to think they provide a resource he can go to when he is stuck for inspiration, or just wants to hear alternate views on a topic. However, he is in no way obligated to implement any of the ideas presented (or even read the topics, when he is pressed for time).

If you ask me, its a win-win. The fans get to discuss everything in as much detail as they want, and Josh can come along later and mine the topics for ideas if he needs them.

I was afraid this was going to go in this direction. It's not an attack on the discussions of ideas at all. Sigh. Never mind.
Sorry, I didn't meant to come off as confrontational.

I guess I'm just not convinced that Josh is as "eager to please" as you seem to be implying.

If I've misread your intent, I apologise.
I'm not convinced of his eagerness to comply either. It's more about the weird fan/creator relationship that seems to take place, and how it manifests in various ways, not just with this game but most games that I've been on a forum for.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#10
Poet1960 wrote:I think that what most of us want is a game that will allow us to enjoy hours of doing whatever we want, personally I don't care that much about how many different ships there are, or if they will be drastically different or just slightly different, I don't care about cosmetic stuff like that very much because it has no real effect on game play with a few exceptions like civs or something of that nature. I DO care about the game itself though, the mechanics.
Here you are doing what you accuse other people of doing. :shh:

And now I'll do it myself:

I for one care a lot about cosmetic stuff like how many different ships will be, and how these ships will look.

Nothing wrong with that. Josh looks very smart and I hope he will know how to separate public expectations of his own, and between the improvables and realistic ones. It is quite logical, moreover, that the creator likes to talk about his creations with others. It is something that rarely happens.
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"Playing" is not simply a pastime, it is the primordial basis of imagination and creation. - Hideo Kojima
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#11
Etsu wrote:
Poet1960 wrote:I think that what most of us want is a game that will allow us to enjoy hours of doing whatever we want, personally I don't care that much about how many different ships there are, or if they will be drastically different or just slightly different, I don't care about cosmetic stuff like that very much because it has no real effect on game play with a few exceptions like civs or something of that nature. I DO care about the game itself though, the mechanics.
Here you are doing what you accuse other people of doing. :shh:

And now I'll do it myself:

I for one care a lot about cosmetic stuff like how many different ships will be, and how these ships will look.

Nothing wrong with that. Josh looks very smart and I hope he will know how to separate public expectations of his own, and between the improvables and realistic ones. It is quite logical, moreover, that the creator likes to talk about his creations with others. It is something that rarely happens.

Did you read in my OP where I said I'm just as guilty as anyone else?
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: Fans, a blessing and a curse

#15
How about we discuss the content of the message instead of he-said she-said.

Or what's more likely on this forum, he-said he-said >.>

So I think it's a good point, and it can be a fine line that separates a fan with input regarding game content for the sake of quality of the game and the same fan who assumes a degree of ownership over it.

I think one safety net in this regard is that from the beginning Josh has been making the game he wants to play. If I want something different in this game from what he wants, his way is the way to go. And that's absolutely the right thing.
Last edited by Scytale on Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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