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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#482
The thing about Rebirth is really a twofold issue. First there is the game itself, bugs, design, implementation, and poor optimization just to name a few, second, there is the sneaky way in which they marketed, what they HAD to of known was a crapfest game, and then had the temerity to charge full price for it, and not letting anyone get a look at it for review purposes prior to release.

As far as games being better in the old days, in general they were. The games generally worked on day one, there wasn't any of this patch the hell out of them for months on end after release. They also generally had a mindset of making a fun game, playability had a higher priority, or so it seems back in those days. That is not so much the case these days, most devs today seem to follow a formula of, whatever the last big seller was, that is why you see so many copy cat type of games. For example, minecraft became a big hit, so now all the big boys want to copy it at least to some degree.

I think there is less innovation today, it's not completely gone, but devs have gotten lazy and just want to make money as quick as possible and good game play be damned.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#483
Poet1960 wrote:As far as games being better in the old days, in general they were. The games generally worked on day one, there wasn't any of this patch the hell out of them for months on end after release.
At the same time, the fact that games can be patched now means that you don't buy Jet Set Willy on release and end up with a game that literally cannot be completed.
Games I like, in order of how much I like them. (Now permanent and updated regularly!)
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#484
Delayed response to Flat here, but I never said - at least not intentionally - that you were blinded by nostalgia. My sentiment was more a response to the guy before, whose view I interpreted as "published games today suck, published games back then were awesome, everyone's in it for the money nowadays", which to me does not seem like a considered argument.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#485
Scytale wrote:Good to see you on the forums, Warlore.

But I take strong issue with your statement. Would you argue that Skyrim was bad? Or that Titanfall was a failure, keeping in mind it was a new idea? There are many examples of published games that are generally regarded as 'good', even among the fairly elitist crowd (myself included in this label) on this forum.

I would also argue that the reason we don't think old published games were bad is because no one remembers the bad ones (except for the catastrophic ones, of course - e.g. Daikatana, E.T. (!)). Do you remember Enter the Matrix? That was twelve years ago. How about Mechwarrior 2, Arcade Edition? 18 years ago. What about this monstrosity? Published by EA, 1994. EA, for crying out loud.

Thanks for the welcome Scytale

I did not mean to offend you.
I would submit that the reason we tend to think of older games as better is that they were more innovative for their time. Now it just seems to be more of the same.
I am not saying that all published games are bad. Far from it, there are definitely good ones (the examples you gave above speak volumes).
However there are some that are just... well... lacking, and some unfortunately are cash grabs. Considering that they are published by corporations it isn't far fetched that they want to make profits.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#486
Warlore wrote:[
Thanks for the welcome Scytale

I did not mean to offend you.
I would submit that the reason we tend to think of older games as better is that they were more innovative for their time. Now it just seems to be more of the same.
I am not saying that all published games are bad. Far from it, there are definitely good ones (the examples you gave above speak volumes).
However there are some that are just... well... lacking, and some unfortunately are cash grabs. Considering that they are published by corporations it isn't far fetched that they want to make profits.

Thank you for your considered response, Warlore. I can't in good conscience disagree with what you've said here. Thanks for responding reasonably to my rather belligerent attitude :)
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#487
Scytale wrote:Good to see you on the forums, Warlore.

But I take strong issue with your statement. Would you argue that Skyrim was bad? Or that Titanfall was a failure, keeping in mind it was a new idea? There are many examples of published games that are generally regarded as 'good', even among the fairly elitist crowd (myself included in this label) on this forum.

I would also argue that the reason we don't think old published games were bad is because no one remembers the bad ones (except for the catastrophic ones, of course - e.g. Daikatana, E.T. (!)). Do you remember Enter the Matrix? That was twelve years ago. How about Mechwarrior 2, Arcade Edition? 18 years ago. What about this monstrosity? Published by EA, 1994. EA, for crying out loud.
HEY! i remember Enter the Matrix quite well, thank you! Was decent, at the time. And i remember the Mechwarrior series being around at the same time. Bit before my time, though. Always loved Mechassault and Mechassault 2 on console though. :D

Keen for Josh's next Dev Update too. Sad he stopped with the Dev logs, as i've been keeping up with them for ages, and actually understood how outside the box a number of his ideas and implementations are, but every Dev update's been better than the previous. Also one of the very few games i'm actually REALLY excited to see and play this year, and i always recommend it when someone mentions decent/upcoming Sci-fi games. [Was quite a fan of Freelancer, but it's also quite limited and really needed more work.]
Can't wait for Release Day for LT, as i missed the kickstarter. THIS, is something worth the usual Triple A price tag, and the amount and quality of work Josh has put into LT is Insane.

I lurk, check out progress, and generally don't read most threads or post. I usually will only post about something i enjoy or am excited about. Back in a few weeks :D
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#489
Flatfingers wrote:You certainly don't owe us any communication, regardless of comments in a Kickstarter update.
I can't agree with this, Flat. Or at least, I'd say that in the KS update he went out of his way to set certain expectations, and did not meet them. He may not owe us anything, but that action devalues his word.

I say that, and yet in reading the post he wrote (to which you wrote the response I am quoting,) he states he is a high anxiety person. It is not my intention to fuel that anxiety, but the whole setting expectations and then simply reneging and going silent two weeks later with absolutely no notice... well, it was poorly handled. The way to deal with anxiety is not to simply crawl in a hole and avoid it. Oh well. I'd have been fine if the expectation hadn't been set. If he *didn't* say "I'm going to be updating every two weeks from here out" I'd have been fine not hearing anything except what he chose to disclose. I don't believe in jumping on people who are working and demanding status updates which take away from the work.

But I do believe in keeping your word. And that's what I have an issue with here.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#491
kaeroku wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:You certainly don't owe us any communication, regardless of comments in a Kickstarter update.
I can't agree with this, Flat. Or at least, I'd say that in the KS update he went out of his way to set certain expectations, and did not meet them. He may not owe us anything, but that action devalues his word.
...
But I do believe in keeping your word. And that's what I have an issue with here.
I won't belabor the point. I think that word "owes" is important, though.

I'm puzzled by Josh's silence. I think an occasional "I'm still working" every week or two would be fine; I don't understand how he could think that going completely incommunicado is an appropriate response to anything.

But I can think that and still conclude that he doesn't "owe" anyone any communication. Other Kickstarter projects I've backed have gone longer with no info posted. I disagreed with their lack of connection with their backers, too, but it's not unheard-of.

That said, I come back to "just because you can do a thing does not imply you should do that thing."

In any formal sense, Josh can say nothing whatsoever and just release LT someday, and he will not have broken any legal or ethical rules. But just because he can do that doesn't mean he should. Even if he doesn't have to provide a biweekly status, even if it's just on the order of "still working on it," I believe it would be courteous to do so.

For whatever it's worth, I hope this clarifies my opinion, which counts for precisely diddley-squat. :D
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#492
Flatfingers wrote:
kaeroku wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:You certainly don't owe us any communication, regardless of comments in a Kickstarter update.
I can't agree with this, Flat. Or at least, I'd say that in the KS update he went out of his way to set certain expectations, and did not meet them. He may not owe us anything, but that action devalues his word.
...
But I do believe in keeping your word. And that's what I have an issue with here.
I think that word "owes" is important, though.
:snip:
I agree with everything you said, and I was not intending to begin a semantical debate regarding the usage of the word 'owes,' and it is entirely my fault for focusing on that when it isn't critical to the point. I believe we're in agreement, I just got a little huffy because I conflated the concept of "Josh owes use nothing" with my own idea that it meant "Josh is doing everything he ought to be in a completely appropriate manner." I agree with the former - your statement that he owes us nothing - and not with the latter - my (incorrect) inference of your meaning.

In any case. I hope all our concerns are put to rest soon.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#493
Flatfingers wrote:...

I'm puzzled by Josh's silence. I think an occasional "I'm still working" every week or two would be fine; I don't understand how he could think that going completely incommunicado is an appropriate response to anything.


That seems reasonable, except for one thing. Look at what happened not that long ago when he was posting regularly and showing stuff off. What happened? And this seems to mostly be a fairly recent development, people started whining about how he wasn't working on what they thought he should have been. Or, complaining that it wasn't going fast enough. Or, that he promised to do X this week/month and he didn't blah blah blah.

So it seems to me, by saying nothing, he can avoid most of that. Yeah they might complain about the lack of communication, but then again, it seems some will complain about something no matter what he does. This way, it gives them less things to complain about and become distractive.

Just my thoughts.
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
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Re: The RTB discussion thread

#494
OR

He could just say hello, ask us to wish him well (which we do) and add a few smilies. ;) :D Not very time consuming, requires very little mental effort and would satisfy those who genuinely give a damn about procedural guy. I'm beginning to think it's something I said or neglected to say....yeah, it's starting to feel like it's something personal. :?

If you are that other entity who pops in here under the cloak of invisibility and keeps abreast of the goings on I feel obliged to inform you that I actually posted something rather similar in the other place. ;) :) I had a coughing fit due to the dust. The compensation for my suffering was that once the fit had passed I found my singing voice was enhanced by the wonderful echo qualities of that chamber. :P

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