Should mods be free?

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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Grumblesaur » Thu May 07, 2015 7:16 pm

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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby ravener96 » Fri May 08, 2015 2:00 am

ok, here's my opinion (cue shitstorm) as if it's worth anything.

mods should be allowed to be monetized with the devs permission.
all this stuff about mods having been free untill now is a little irellevant since the same has been said about a lot of things throughout time. youtubers for example were for a long time expected to be hobbyists and only do it for fun. now we have professional youtubers everywhere and patreon exclusive shows every here and there (looking at you drunken peasants).
the reason the modding scene has been dominated by a mix of amateurs and hobbyists so far has been in part that there hasnt been a way to actually make anything off it. there will most likely always be free mods available, just like there is free music and free games and so on. it's just that we now can support professional modders. if a modder is professional he is now a business man, he will need a combination of quality and competitive pricing for it to make sense.

there are exceptions of course. you shouldent be able to monetize mods that either don't work or steal assets, but in principle i'm not against monetizing mods. if you were to sell then they should have an expiration date though. so you are promised support of the mod for a certain amount of time to keep mod devs in check.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Umbru » Fri May 08, 2015 8:18 am

I do think mods should be able to charge for their work if they want to, that said once money comes into it things are going to get complicated. I kind of hope valve starts their experiment back up and works through the issues (of which their are many other than consumer backlash).

Collaborations: Modding groups can be pretty fluid losing and gaining members throughout the life of the project, not a big deal when they were doing it for free but if the mod ends up going payed then how do you decide who gets paid how much.
Many of the large/full conversion mods use lots of code and assets from other mods, so what happens if the big mod goes paid? do you pay a % to everybody who's assets you used? or inversely if one of the smaller mods goes paid and demands the larger one stop using their assets.
Would probably need a permissions library (X community has this) to keep track with flags like (ok to use code in part or in whole for any project) (ok....in free projects) (ok....with permission) (Not ok .... at all)

Quality control: Steam doesn't curate their content at all which is probably why so much garbage was on the Skyrim mod store for the limited time it was open, although the 24 hour refund policy was a nice step it probably needed to be a little longer(maybe a week) and have a rating system built in to help the good stuff stay at the top and the garbage settle to the bottom. Also needs to be a system in place to try keep people from exploiting the system (deliberately breaking a mod and charging for a new version)

Support: Needs to be clear that you shouldn't assume their will be any, Although I would imagine most modders would probably update their mods more often if they were making some money off them.

Long term I think a modd store would be a good thing but short term it will be a train wreck and require a lot of work from people who are patent and passionate about it get everything sorted.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby jasonbarron » Fri May 08, 2015 6:40 pm

In response to the OP's original post:

I'm in favor of monetizing mods for those mod designers who are interested in financial rewards in return for their hard work and creativity.

There should be a three way split: publisher/selling platform/mod creator, with the lion's share going to the first two.

My opinion is that the free market will sort itself out.

;)
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sat May 09, 2015 12:21 pm

jasonbarron wrote:There should be a three way split: publisher/selling platform/mod creator, with the lion's share going to the first two.


why should the lions share go to publisher and the distribution platform?

the ones who have the actual work in creating the mod get the least ouf of their time?

where does that make sense?
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Dinosawer » Sat May 09, 2015 12:41 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
jasonbarron wrote:There should be a three way split: publisher/selling platform/mod creator, with the lion's share going to the first two.


why should the lions share go to publisher and the distribution platform?

the ones who have the actual work in creating the mod get the least ouf of their time?

where does that make sense?


I was going to say the same and give an example about monetising covers on youtube.

And then I checked and saw that you only get 55% of ad revenue on your own songs and don't get to know the split for covers of someone else's music.

Goddammit Google. :evil:
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby jasonbarron » Sat May 09, 2015 2:47 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
jasonbarron wrote:There should be a three way split: publisher/selling platform/mod creator, with the lion's share going to the first two.


why should the lions share go to publisher and the distribution platform?

the ones who have the actual work in creating the mod get the least ouf of their time?

where does that make sense?


Without the publisher, you have no game to mod. Without the selling platform, good luck selling your mod.

I agree in principle that mod creators should have the right to ask for financial compensation for their efforts, but recognize that they are the smallest part of the equation.

Is that making more sense?
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Sat May 09, 2015 3:00 pm

jasonbarron wrote:Without the publisher, you have no game to mod. Without the selling platform, good luck selling your mod.

I agree in principle that mod creators should have the right to ask for financial compensation for their efforts, but recognize that they are the smallest part of the equation.

Is that making more sense?



with the devs of the game getting a big share i can agree, but the distribution platform?

"hey i just sold my old computer on ebay, the one who bought it paid 600 and ebay took 350 of that, so i have 250 bucks for my old computer"
^ that sentence is what you propose
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Umbru » Sat May 09, 2015 4:40 pm

In the case of youtube they are doing the work of selling the adds running the servers and all the other work of keeping the service running, that said it is all pointless without the content creators but don't think youtube doesn't earn their cut and from what I have seen most professional you tubbers don't begrudge google the chunk they take..

Same with the distribution platform they are the ones providing server space bandwidth to get you your mods none of that is cheap. I think Valve took a 20-30% cut which is the same thing they take for games. Give you a rough idea the guy who runs the Nexus modding site said it took something like $500,0000 to keep that site going and they don't move anywhere near the kind of bandwidth or chew through the server space Valve or even Origin does.

Now to the publisher, granted it is their game and without said game their are no mods but if you want to play the mods you have to buy the game so even if they don't' get a penny directly from mod sales they are benefiting from every mod sold. So while they may have an argument for why they deserve a cut of mod sales I think log run it would be in a publishers best interest to take ether no cut or a very small one because an active modding scene is ultimately a much bigger benefit to them than the 40 or so % they might take from mod sales.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Poet1960 » Sat May 09, 2015 5:09 pm

Let's not forget, that when others, like publishers and such get involved, prices tend to go up because they usually control the final cost to the consumer. Cost always gets passed on to the consumer. That is why I think it is best to just let the modders get what they can by way of donations. Sure, they may not make a whole lot, but at least THEY WILL GET ALL of what comes their way. The only reason this is even an issue, is because the big dogs see it as way to make a lot of money with virtually no effort on their part, by exploiting the hard work of modders and taking most of the money, all while claiming to be "helping" the modders.

It's bull. The current situation, while maybe not perfect, is certainly better, than the miasma of greed and manipulation that would certainly be created by, those who want to dominate and control any revenue, created by or in the modding scene.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby jasonbarron » Sat May 09, 2015 5:16 pm

Cornflakes_91 wrote:
jasonbarron wrote:Without the publisher, you have no game to mod. Without the selling platform, good luck selling your mod.

I agree in principle that mod creators should have the right to ask for financial compensation for their efforts, but recognize that they are the smallest part of the equation.

Is that making more sense?



with the devs of the game getting a big share i can agree, but the distribution platform?

"hey i just sold my old computer on ebay, the one who bought it paid 600 and ebay took 350 of that, so i have 250 bucks for my old computer"
^ that sentence is what you propose



We don't necessarily need to see eye to eye on this. Right now, the way it stands is that a lot (most?) people seem to think they are entitled to free mods. I don't agree with that attitude. I think the content creators deserve a shot at making a buck. I also recognize that the content isn't going to sell itself, therefore they need a platform to present their wares. This platform, Steam for instance, isn't free to run, and wasn't free to create. The platform deserves compensation for their hard work, too. If the mod creators want to take a different path, one that has a more traditional pay model with less risk, they can always become developers themselves.

No harm in disagreeing, Cornflake
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Poet1960 » Sat May 09, 2015 5:37 pm

jasonbarron wrote:



snip
...This platform, Steam for instance, isn't free to run, and wasn't free to create. The platform deserves compensation for their hard work, too. If the mod creators want to take a different path, one that has a more traditional pay model with less risk, they can always become developers themselves.

No harm in disagreeing, Cornflake


What hard work? The platform is ALREADY in place. All they have to do is put something on their site which requires what? A few lines of code?
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Mistycica » Sat May 09, 2015 5:51 pm

Poet1960 wrote:
What hard work? The platform is ALREADY in place. All they have to do is put something on their site which requires what? A few lines of code?


The platform already got where it is via hard work. What, already established and running big companies should not gain any profit because they 'already made it big'? That's not how it works. Your electrical company snatches a pretty profit from distributing power from the plant to you, despite 'doing absolutely nothing', just owning the lines. In this case, there is more than a few lines of code to do there, security and moderation (that the recently failed system lacked), the fact that they are running the servers 0-24 and featuring the content the modder tosses up there.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby Poet1960 » Sat May 09, 2015 6:01 pm

Mistycica wrote:
Poet1960 wrote:
What hard work? The platform is ALREADY in place. All they have to do is put something on their site which requires what? A few lines of code?


The platform already got where it is via hard work. What, already established and running big companies should not gain any profit because they 'already made it big'? That's not how it works. Your electrical company snatches a pretty profit from distributing power from the plant to you, despite 'doing absolutely nothing', just owning the lines. In this case, there is more than a few lines of code to do there, security and moderation (that the recently failed system lacked), the fact that they are running the servers 0-24 and featuring the content the modder tosses up there.



:lol: Yeah, and Tesla wanted to make energy free, but we got what we have now instead. Thanks for proving my point. ;) I have no problem with free enterprise when done honestly and with no monopolistic control. BTW, it doesn't sound like you have the modders well being in mind when you make statements like this.

I am going to help you out. You spend years making something, and I will come along and "help" you by putting it on my website and giving you 10 cents, while I take $19.90, just because.......you know, I care about you and want to help you.
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Re: Should mods be free?

Postby DigitalDuck » Sat May 09, 2015 6:18 pm

Poet1960 wrote:I am going to help you out. You spend years making something, and I will come along and "help" you by putting it on my website and giving you 10 cents, while I take $19.90, just because.......you know, I care about you and want to help you.


If the exposure you're giving me means that will give me an increase in profits, I'll take it. If it doesn't, I won't. That's how business works.

Nobody's forcing anyone to sell their games/mods on Steam. The fact that they choose to do so suggests that maybe Steam's cut is worth it.
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