after reading through this thread again i had an idea on how to include tourism in an understandable way into the economy of LT.
the basic version is:
planets generate a "unstatisfied tourist" type NPC/worker.
("[un-/statisfied] tourist from daerla 3")
those unstatisfied tourists can then "level up" (along the probabilistic mechanics that josh outlined for worker npc's ages ago) to statisfied tourists when they are aboard a ship/station that offers touristic services.
for example having an observation bay while passing by the more rarer stellar phenomena, or having a recreational deck that supplied with luxuries/Drugs/exotic dancers etc.
this takes some time and depends on the facilities and the supplied goods / visited phenomena.
the then statisfied tourists would then have to be transported back to their home planet.
Hyperion proposed an addition to this system in form of more diversification of travellers.
every tourist would then have a sozioeconomic class, a mind state (stressed, bored, etc) and a "goal" of a certain class of entertainment.
for example there would be "rich, bored stellar phenomenon seekers" which would for example enjoy sundiving with shuttles or similar.
they would in essence work the same way as in my proposal, but would have more specific requirements to get statisfied.
this system could also incorporate pilgrims and general travellers by specifying a location with their goal as well.
i have no idea how the payout could be handled, though.
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<+Hyperion> do tell
<+Hyperion> how will LT have tourists?
<+Cornflakes> short form, you get a job to take "unstatisfied tourists" and bring back "statisfied tourists"
<+Cornflakes> long form, planets produce unstatisfied tourists as a "ware" / worker NPC like good
<+Cornflakes> you take them in your (specially equipped) ship/station where they "level up" according to the worker leveling mechanic josh devised ages ago
<+Cornflakes> and when they "leveled up" you bring them back
<+Cornflakes> at least thats the minimally invasive method on LT mechanics
<+Hyperion> i like it, how about different tourist levels, same ideas but different requirements for leveling up
<+Cornflakes> so a "pleased", "excited" etc tourists?
<+Cornflakes> or you mean "stellar phenomena tourists" "nightlife tourists" ?
<+Hyperion> well you could have 3 variables, socioeconomic class, attitude, and goals
<+Cornflakes> hm... could explode pretty fast into many many many "redundant" varieties
<+Cornflakes> but continue
<+Hyperion> sometimes variables are 0, so they dont particularly care what they do or see
<+Hyperion> for example Tourist A= Var1: (economy) Var:2 (Stressed) Var3: (nightlife). Meaning they want accomodations that offer economy levelers(if they offer luxury levers too thats fine but they have to also offer economy levelers)
<+Hyperion> They are stressed so they want stress de-levelers, not excitement
<+Hyperion> And they also want nightlife, not stellar phenomenon or exotic cultures etc
<+Cornflakes> so for those you'd have to build/utilise a leaned back nightclub like infrastructure
<+Hyperion> Well accomodations are straightforward, you have economy levelers which can "process" many economy level tourists or luxury levelers which can "process" only a few
<+Hyperion> But you also have additional modules which offer class levelers/de-levelers such as excitement class levelers which raise the excitement/stress variable and relatation levelers which lower it
<+Cornflakes> that actually doesnt sound bad
<+Cornflakes> my bit of a gripe there is that it could explode into many individual objects fast...
<+Hyperion> And you also have goal levelers which are binary either it satisfies the goal or it doesnt
<+Cornflakes> you'd have planet, class, mindsate, goal, level modifiers
<+Hyperion> you either have nightlife venues or you dont
<+Hyperion> you either have exotic cultures/museums or you dont
<+Hyperion> Each variable and its fulfilment is tied into either your payment of your reputation
<+Hyperion> or your reputation*
<+Hyperion> individual objects, yes there would be an explosion of them but you arent talking about inidividual modules, but module classes
<+Hyperion> the individual modules are just names
<+Cornflakes> im not talking bout modules
<+Cornflakes> im talking about the hundreds of different tourist object classes that that would create
<+Cornflakes> for 2 possible states for each and only one planet we'd already have 2^4 different tourists...
<+Cornflakes> in principle i'd enjoy your variation
<+Cornflakes> not sure if it would be so wise overview and technical wise
<+Hyperion> lets see economy vs luxury = 2 excitement/relaxation = 2. those are universals for all tourists anywhere
<+Cornflakes> so we have 8 variations per planet
<+Cornflakes> times the different goals
<+Hyperion> this would also cover pilgrimages too tbh
<+Cornflakes> well, goal: pilgrimage [location]
<+Hyperion> you just need a religious goal
<+Hyperion> so yes it would cause hundreds of different tourist objects, but thats mainly because of so many points of origin
<+Cornflakes> maybe we could reduce them to different /cultural/ tourists
<+Cornflakes> zorblaxian, klingon, etc tourists
<+Hyperion> then again we dont really qualify berliner tourists from munchener tourists, we just call them german tourists or even european tourists
<+Cornflakes> probably enough for LT, though
<+Cornflakes> if we then include general travellers (traveller, goal [location])
<+Hyperion> well you might need a way to have objects become more generalized with distance
<+Hyperion> if youre in frankfurt or paris it might make a difference whether someone is from berlin or munich
<+Hyperion> but not so much if youre in china
<+Cornflakes> would not do much to reduce variation explosion...
<+Hyperion> we only need to reduce varaition explosion to the edge of active simulation
<+Hyperion> not to the infinite multiverse
<+Hyperion> i dont know that josh has any mechanics in place to generalize goods by distance
<+Cornflakes> to the infinite multiverse it would not matter that much, as you can just reduce them to seed goods, or goods defined by the planets state
<+Hyperion> does it still distinguish omicrom percei 8 ale from omicron percei 7 ale 30 jumps away? or would it just become omicron percei ale or even omicron ale?
<+Cornflakes> it would still differentiate, yeah.
<+Cornflakes> its the lowest level im concerned about
<+Cornflakes> when you have a system with 5 planets, all of them with all kinds of tourists...
<+Hyperion> 5planets * 2 classes * 2 mindstates * Ngoals
<+Cornflakes> *2 for fresh/statisfied
<+Hyperion> so minimum 40 per goal
<+Cornflakes> would be a bit excessive imo...
<+Hyperion> hmm, i suppose you could cut out the mindstates, as their fulfillment would be partially goal dependant
<+Hyperion> still, 20 tourist types per planet
<+Hyperion> 20 tourist types per goal *
<+Hyperion> anyways, why does every origin point of tourist need its own object?
<+Cornflakes> i had a good reason for that
<+Cornflakes> i dont remember it now, though
<+Hyperion> is it for fresh v satisfied
<+Hyperion> for the tourism business i think it would be payment upon departure, reputation change upon arrival
<+Hyperion> and what happens if you run off with tourists
<+Hyperion> or they become hostages
<+Cornflakes> that should be an option to do
<+Hyperion> or their plane is shot out of the sky because you flew over a warzone
<+Silverware> should have Person[Origin][Destination] if they dont get to their destination before the expire (each one could have a timer on it for when it expires
<+Silverware> then they become Hostage[origin]
<+Hyperion> thats a lot of timers
<+Cornflakes> just an expiration time on the object
<+Cornflakes> so you'd have them batch wise from the time of departure
<+Silverware> thats what I mean by timer Corn
<+Silverware> person[origin][destination][must arive before this time]
<+Cornflakes> and they'd not run in parallel but only be checked occasionally when you acces the cargo hold
<+Silverware> 3 vars
<+Silverware> not hard
<+Silverware> oh and count of them
<+Silverware> you would pick them up in groups of many
<+Silverware> not individually
<+Hyperion> batch time till statechange=disattisfied batchtime till statechange= hostage?
<+Silverware> Happy Person, Dissatisfied person, Hostage
<+Hyperion> so thats another variable
<+Silverware> its three different objects :D
<+Silverware> it morphs into the other types
<+Silverware> when its time is hit
<+Hyperion> and at hostage you can eliminate their goal variable
<+Cornflakes> and.. everything else
<+Cornflakes> besides socioeconomic state
<+Silverware> na socioeconomics is decided by the "price" you "buy" them for
<+Cornflakes> as a rich child gives more cash in ransom than office worker #2134243523
<+Silverware> yes but thats price determined
<+Silverware> or type
<+Hyperion> well im thinking that economy modules would hold 1000 economy tourists while luxury modules would hold 100 luxury tourists
<+Silverware> could be named [rich kids]
<+Cornflakes> or just [economy/luxury]
<+Cornflakes> depending on rich child or not
<+Hyperion> if you have hostages though you also need a few additions such as rescue hostages, execute hostages, and release % of hostages
<+Hyperion> and you also need to determine hostage value
<+Hyperion> and % chance that executing hostage will cause ransom payment and % chance that executing hostage will trigger hostage rescue
<+Hyperion> and you need AI hostage ship behaviors.and Hostage rescue behaviors... you want to imobilize the hostage ship not destroy it
<+Hyperion> thank god josh didnt include interiors
<+Hyperion> none of this would be remotely feasible if he had
<+Cornflakes> would be cool to have hostage situations aboard a station/ship though
<+Hyperion> mhm, but will likely be a mod