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Re: Zones

#106
I don't think zones create warp lanes. They define what warp lanes can connect to.

If the player or AI want to construct a warp lane, they will have to specify which zone the lane starts in and which one it ends in.

If you create a zone, it does not automatically create warp lanes. You or the AI will have to construct those.

Re: Zones

#107
That would be a very smart and intuitive way to tell LT where you want a highway to be. Good thinking !
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re: Zones

#108
Latest from Josh:

Think of zones not in terms of ownership but more as a pathfinding aid. Their purpose is to allow players/AI to determine how to get from point A to point B

Like: "I'm in Reno, which highways do I take to get to Miami and what states do I go through"

He is yet to decide how zones are implemented when two stations are built next to each other. Either they flatten next to each other or the bigger station encroaches on the smaller one.

He also says size is static.

Re: Zones

#109
Sasha wrote:Latest from Josh:

Think of zones not in terms of ownership but more as a pathfinding aid. Their purpose is to allow players/AI to determine how to get from point A to point B

Like: "I'm in Reno, which highways do I take to get to Miami and what states do I go through"

He is yet to decide how zones are implemented when two stations are built next to each other. Either they flatten next to each other or the bigger station encroaches on the smaller one.

He also says size is static.
From where is this info? Irc? Bit early for him so show up :think:

Re: Zones

#110
Cornflakes_91 wrote:From where is this info? Irc? Bit early for him so show up :think:
IRC, yes.


For your viewing pleasure:
Spoiler:      SHOW
[13:47:37] <+neural> look, this isn't meant to be a complex concept
[13:47:41] <+neural> think zone = country
[13:47:45] <+neural> it's an abstraction
[13:48:22] <+neural> they aren't *made* for ownership, per-se, but they enable it
[13:48:50] <+neural> you might consider a name landmass to exist even without ownership (Antarctica), simply because it's easier to talk about that way
[13:49:12] <+neural> and they're not specifically to help place warp lanes either, it's just another consequence of their existence
[13:49:23] <+neural> think: if we separate land into countries
[13:49:35] <+neural> suddently transportation is not an issue of "jee, I wonder how I get from (x, y, z) to (x2, y2, z2)"
[13:49:44] <+neural> it's an issue of "how do I get from France to Germany"
[13:49:58] <+neural> and "maybe it would help if we had a highway somewhere around Berlin that connects to ..."
[13:50:13] <+neural> (I don't know enough European geography to not make a fool of myself here :P)
[13:50:44] <+neural> being able to think of transportation and ownership in terms of abstractions like zones (countries, regions, continents) just helps to simplify that 'thinking'

[13:50:28] <+Vartul> so the only thing you can do is claim zones. they can't be created or destroyed? Cool, like energy, huh?
[13:51:01] <+neural> Vartul the question of creation is still in the air
[13:51:07] <+neural> because creation implies changing boundaries
[13:51:14] <+neural> as you guys have already established
[13:51:45] <+neural> there are two roads we can take:
[13:51:54] <+neural> static zones
[13:52:02] <+neural> basically defined by natural features (think: continents)
[13:52:31] <+neural> or dynamic zones, which are still created by natural features, but now we have to take into account that their boudnaries can be pushed by artifical features
[13:52:41] <+neural> for this we would use the 'metaball' concept as cornflakes called it
[13:53:03] <+neural> in reality it just means we would consider ourselves to be in the 'zone' of the nearest feature (where 'nearness' takes into account scale)
[13:53:43] <+neural> which makes total sense, btw ~ your friend asks you where you are, you say "in the Joshian Field," or "Near Planet Josh," or .... etc. etc, in general you will pick the most prominent near feature to describe your location
[13:54:12] <+neural> but the real question is as you guys were saying, what happens when we build two stations very near one another
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re: Zones

#111
Let me try to clarify a little more:

A zone is just intended to be a simplified way to think about space. Much like countries. By putting a (possibly-abstract) boundary around a piece of space and calling it something, you make it easier to describe and reason about it. Bit hard for me to talk about culture and climate with respect to lat / long, but if you ask me how are the people in Tennessee, suddenly that's a question I can answer. Just as we think about a group of molecules in terms of the 'object' that they constitute, so it also helps us to create an abstraction for thinking about space. We've already done so with 'systems' and 'regions,' but it definitely helps to have something at the sub-system level.

So in that way, a zone is an aid for understanding. Yes, it helps to simplify pathfinding. Yes, it helps to simplify ownership mechanics. Yes, it helps to simplify both the player and AI's understanding of the connectivity and structure of space. None of those are really the primary purpose, but they're all great consequences of the fact that it is now easier to reason about space.

Hope that makes some amount of sense :D

As for static vs. dynamic zones - the issue is yet to be decided :)
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford

Re: Zones

#114
Cornflakes_91 wrote:Josh:

Id personally opt for dynamic zones, because
Example:

Big spacestation in the middle of nowhere, but at the crossroads of a few jumpgates/holes.

How do you adress the "area around waypoint station" without creating a zone?
Because anyone would use the station as reference point if he is in the general area.
It's the way I'm leaning, as I like the idea of thinking of a zone as a 'reference point.' I like the idea of a zone as being the answer to the question: "hey, where are you right now?" (And not just xyz coordinates :P )

If it is the way I go, then the implementation will be bounded ellipsoidal 'metaballs' as you called them. What this really means is that we are just choosing the nearest 'reference point' that is within some distance threshold, and takes into account scale. And that is considered to be our zone. In dense regions, the result would essentially be a 3D version of today's political maps.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford

Re: Zones

#116
Cornflakes_91 wrote:First: i did not call them metaballs, they were already named as such, just used the concept.

I still see some problem with lots of overlapping spheres, how do you adress that?
Just use the strongest influence? some "im between waypoint station and the solaris jumpgate" approach or merging as i already suggested "im near station group 3"
I know, I just wanted to confirm the reference :)

Right, I would just select the maximum, and there is no such thing as overlap when selecting the max.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford

Re: Zones

#118
If a zone is really a reference or a point of interest, I don't see a reason to merge or modify them.

A zone might be owned, but this ownership doesn't need to involve another zone. It might as well be a sphere of influence exhumed from the station you built, or ship you parked.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re: Zones

#120
sqrt( a1*a1 + a2*a2 + ...) would work, where each a term is the influence. Correct for sign, and scale each term by distance, and you'd have the transitions between zones too :D

Alternatively, you could throw it all into a scalar field/blob equation to get a value at a point. Throwing that into a solver can get you a displayable isosurface of influence (64^3 should be good for a scanner view, and a good candidate for periodic background GPU processing), but I'm only suggesting that to tease Josh ;)

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