Lum wrote:Edit: just found this

Fantastic! That was one of the links i had been talking about that i had lost track off, thanks for bringing it here

How hard is it to do that? I have no idea, but as 'procedural' it could be a fun side project for Josh, maybe to add as part of any expansion etc. Those particular faces are themed to the world of Ultima Ratio Regum, so more 'primitive tribe' in style, but a 'futeristic' style to that process would be perfect (imho). Here is that games main site just in case it is worth for Josh to follow for interest etc:

http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/

I had an early build to mess around with, and while not much of a game at that point, it's world building was very interesting.

You know, I honestly think adding faces to NPC's would detract form the overall experience and atmosphere, because it removes any ambiguity from the nature of the life forms we are dealing with. If I happen upon a new civilization after traveling though great swaths of pristine lifeless void, having boring human faces next to the names of its inhabitants would destroy a lot of that wonder for me. I may be strange in this regard but having blank space (no pun intended) in a game's world that I can fill with whatever detail I desire is attractive to me. I want to be able to decide for myself if I have happened upon an new alien race unknown to humanity or the results of a few deep space travelers that colonized the region long ago.

Also I reject outright the idea that factions will not be memorable simply because we don't have a face to associate them with. Remember that NPC's will have personality. We will have history with them. When we see a 'StarTec Corp' ship in our airspace we will remember the time those bastards undercut our Verideum trading operation, or the war they fought agents one of our business partners. These kinds of associations are far more powerful then a face. I don't believe they are particularly strengthened by one ether. A symbol is quite sufficient.

Josh said LT 1.0! LT 2.0 confirmed!

Seriously though, I'm intrigued by the idea of a series of nodes that move and change color as an NPC "communicates" to indicate facial expressions and emotions. I mean, we all know that if the dots turn red and start to move erratically, it means "angry". And if the dots turn blue and seem to dance around gracefully, it means peaceful. White bouncing dots might be laughter, and maybe they even form a smile for just a brief second before moving back to their normal pattern.

Maybe not LT 1.0 but DLC? Or maybe just a screensaver. It would be so nice to watch

SleepyMcGee wrote:You know, I honestly think adding faces to NPC's would detract form the overall experience and atmosphere, because it removes any ambiguity from the nature of the life forms we are dealing with.

True, we have not really had that much detail on what we or the other residents of Limit Theories galaxy are, we could be two-headed squid like beings, or advanced AI in robot shells.

Still IF that was the case i would so love to see all that 'in the flesh' so to speak, we have a history of games that have depicted incredibly awesome alien life-forms (from MOO to Ascendancy etc). One of the main problems a space game can fall into is too become too spread-sheet based (looking at your X3 and Elite: Dangerous), devoid of that exotic and reasonably believable immersion you get from having a 'face' to your self and the other characters that inhabit your game.

Finding the right balance and blend to enforce that 'human' (or whatever you are) feel to encounters can be tricky. but that makes them more than a name on a spreadsheet list. Even if you are not a people person in your day to day life (you might even be very unsociable), you are hard wired with the face recognition software, it is just part of our DNA.

Well I finally got around to making 5 more of these images. I really don't want to have to do 5 more if this isn't working. Also, I think these would work because they vary quite a bit. If I was working with a particular NPC I think I'd be able to easily tell who is who.

I'm curious what you guys think.

Really nice!

BFett wrote:Well I finally got around to making 5 more of these images. I really don't want to have to do 5 more if this isn't working. Also, I think these would work because they vary quite a bit. If I was working with a particular NPC I think I'd be able to easily tell who is who.

I'm curious what you guys think.

Spoiler:      SHOW

It's a good concept, but doesn't provide the unique look to each of them that really is required to tell them apart at first glance.
There is something missing from them, although I can't tell you what that is.
The human brain is evolved to tell the difference between faces, so maybe they just aren't facelike enough for me.

Although now you have put ideas into my head...

It's an interesting challenge. I think that as the player tries to interact with particular AI that are listed next to each other the name+face will help. I agree though that most of these aren't really faces and are just quick images that I generated with GIMP. It is possible to get images that resemble faces, but that would take a couple of hours worth of work.

The main thing that I think is missing is characteristics. Since we just see images and a face we don't know who the NPC actually is. We can't say that we have a business relationship with any of them or that they help save us from pirates. I would hope that with those connections, and the addition of the face and name, that the player would be able to connect with the NPC on a more personal level.

I'm not sure, just speculating.

Maybe coloration based on AI play styles?

Redder for more aggressive characters, maybe with sharper lines, and more angular features.

Greener for more passive characters, possibly with smoother curves.

MyNameWuzTaken wrote:Josh said LT 1.0! LT 2.0 confirmed!

Seriously though, I'm intrigued by the idea of a series of nodes that move and change color as an NPC "communicates" to indicate facial expressions and emotions. I mean, we all know that if the dots turn red and start to move erratically, it means "angry". And if the dots turn blue and seem to dance around gracefully, it means peaceful. White bouncing dots might be laughter, and maybe they even form a smile for just a brief second before moving back to their normal pattern.

Maybe not LT 1.0 but DLC? Or maybe just a screensaver. It would be so nice to watch

I actually really like this idea, and I feel like it would fit in with the aesthetic of LT really well.

Silverware wrote:

BFett wrote:Well I finally got around to making 5 more of these images. I really don't want to have to do 5 more if this isn't working. Also, I think these would work because they vary quite a bit. If I was working with a particular NPC I think I'd be able to easily tell who is who.

I'm curious what you guys think.

Spoiler:      SHOW

It's a good concept, but doesn't provide the unique look to each of them that really is required to tell them apart at first glance.
There is something missing from them, although I can't tell you what that is.
The human brain is evolved to tell the difference between faces, so maybe they just aren't facelike enough for me.

Although now you have put ideas into my head...

Yeah, they are not 'human' enough sadly. And this is kind of what i was trying to point out, we are DNA hardwired for face recognition, or at the very least face reading (of emotions/mood etc). We are evolded apes and the importance of a 'face' is just part of what we are as socially evolved apes.

So yeah i agree those images while nice 'art', that might fit well in the general GUI theme we have seen so far, are just too abstract and not 'face like' enough to asign an easily recognisable and distinct personality to.

Faction flags/symbols in another method maybe, but that just works for a group.........maybe a combination of 'faction flags' and 'face' outlines (where face can be robot/human/alien etc)?

Those faces work for me to be honest, some of them look insectoid/reptilian or like a cowled humanesque alien from something like Star Trek.

Change the contrast a bit, add some colours and more differentiation in the eye/nose/mouth areas and someway procedural way of expressing emotion, (sounds or colours or even an angry/happy looking animated waveform analogue, red jagged peaks for anger, blue smooth curves for happy) and I think they would do the job once in the context of the game,

jarl wrote:Those faces work for me to be honest, some of them look insectoid/reptilian or like a cowled humanesque alien from something like Star Trek.

Change the contrast a bit, add some colours and more differentiation in the eye/nose/mouth areas and someway procedural way of expressing emotion, (sounds or colours or even an angry/happy looking animated waveform analogue, red jagged peaks for anger, blue smooth curves for happy) and I think they would do the job once in the context of the game,

^ this, at least for me.

BFett I find them extremely compelling. If given a bit more detail (and color variation) and then rendered through LT's UI renderer (soft and glowy), I could seriously dig them. To me, they strike a wonderful balance between ability to quickly recognize an individual and yet inability to tell that it's a 'human' or anything too specific about it. After all, we really don't know if the LT inhabitants are human, and I like that this and Hyperion's prior work respect the ambiguity of it all.

Thus far, I'm fairly compelled by this mode of representation...

I'll repost this...

+1 to this, Hyperion's work was excellent