The General Unhappiness Megathread

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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby Prack » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:27 am

Happy 2 years without devlogs everyone!
And 4 1/2 months without Josh
:ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost:
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby charnode » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:16 am

... lately I was wondering how much administrative power was given to the Moderators here. Also, I was wondering, to whom their undoubtedly excellent service is rendered. Is it Josh? How much has he profited around here from all the work the Mods put in here? So I would venture to say the Moderators haven't done this for Josh, they did it for the forum users.

Now, seeing how Josh tends to at least care less and less about this place of thought exchange I was wondering if a little ... rearranging of the forums would be helpful to spark meaningful conversation rather than just day in day out moping on how there is no new Information on Limit Theory (just like Victor and Ringu did). Maybe push the subforums that are of little value (such as this Limit Theory\General) down a bit. Probably rename some. Split some to spark discussion on software development in general (I sense there are quite a few people around here dealing with that kind of matter), maybe some other topics aswell.

To me such meaningful rearranging could lead to three scenarios:

1) Josh secretly visits the forums, does not like the change and will speak up or put the forums back in its original state. Thus, message from Josh.
2) This place turns into something less and less about Limit Theory and more and more about the actual people visiting here. Everybody would probably sort of agree at this point that waiting for LT is kind of futile with the Information at hand. Free forums without ads.
3) That would be a bummer, Josh just shuts down the forums. Probably should have an exit strategy for that, kind of.

Mutiny? Probably; but with best intentions. Also, maybe its just a stupid idea. Excuse my stream of consciousness styled explanation.

Also, I hate windows 10 Auto correct. It's my greatest enema.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby HolyAvengerOne » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:24 am

charnode wrote:Mutiny? Probably; but with best intentions. Also, maybe its just a stupid idea. Excuse my stream of consciousness styled explanation.

Hah, that would be something cool to try :) What not at this point.

What I think is likely happening with Josh is that he relapsed in his depression/burnout, and the docs have told him NO interaction with LT / forums / etc. until he's back 100%. That's, sadly, fairly common in that kind of scenario, with someone with that illness.


charnode wrote:Also, I hate windows 10 Auto correct. It's my greatest enema.

Hah! I see what you did there, professor ;)
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby BFett » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:36 am

That's a fairly good suggestion for the time being. I should probably start an art thread for making signatures for those of you interested in using them on various forums.

I want to see more productive posts and topics which have us helping one another.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby DWMagus » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:46 pm

The mods are given very little power, with the exception of Tal.

Right now, only Tal can rearrange forums (I think).

At the same time, since bots are (mostly) being auto-thwacked, there really isn't much 'management' being done here unless something spirals out of control and Corn or Dino give us a head's up on IRC.
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Re: What will you try and achieve when the full game comes o

Postby wizaerd » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:17 pm

Black--Snow wrote:
wizaerd wrote:How cute and adorable, you all thinking this game will ever come out... Awwww, brings a little tear to me eye...

Go away. Go complain in the general unhappiness thread please.


But my post wasn't a complaint, it was an observation...
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Re: What will you try and achieve when the full game comes o

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:21 pm

wizaerd wrote:But my post wasn't a complaint, it was an observation...


Leave us our enjoyment, you are free to make fun... hold on... no.
You arent free to make fun of anyone anywhere in this forums.
You can make passive aggressively fun of people somewhere else.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby Cody » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:38 pm

DWMagus wrote:Corn or Dino give us a head's up on IRC.

Good to have IRC there - the Oolite IRC was invaluable when the forum was hacked.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby Flatfingers » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:53 pm

HolyAvengerOne wrote:the docs have told him NO interaction with LT / forums / etc. until he's back 100%.

100%? 100%??

See, that is exactly the perfectionistic thinking that got us into...

...no, no, kidding, sorry.

Mostly. "100% thinking" really is hazardous to health and accomplishment, though.

charnode wrote:Also, I hate windows 10 Auto correct. It's my greatest enema.

:clap:
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby kaeroku » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:34 pm

Sadly for us to get access to any of Josh's code to see about bringing it to life, we'd need access to Josh, and that's the same issue we have with getting info on the game and the same issue we have with getting info on refunds. No access, absolutely no engagement from Josh whatsoever.

I gotta admit, the conversation about personal info references constituting doxxing ruffles my feathers a bit. I agree with NonBritGrit's comments and actually find it worrisome that mods would try to remotely tie references to real life, publicly posted and willingly-volunteered info by the persons involved to doxxing. Very very strange to see that level of delusion coming out of leadership here, and it makes me not really want to participate in conversations very much.

Literally the only source of info we have on Josh right now is user-generated, as he's not offering any. Referring to that which he has offered in the past, or info that is publicly available which someone notices, is info. In many ways, by providing that info the people are doing a small amount of what Josh should be doing: Communicating about his status (even in small amounts) which he is not. Whether or not some people find that creepy is irrelevant. If the intent is not malicious it is not doxxing, and should not be treated as poor behavior by mods. If the info is publicly available it is not "disrespecting anyone's privacy" as it is, quite literally by definition, *not* private. And if we're going to be discouraging conversation which is relevant to the developer of the game, then really what's the frakking point anymore?

I'm asking that mods please have some respect for the people here having on-topic discussions, and that if you don't agree it's on topic, you at least consider whether the actions are demonstrably harmful. If they're not, leave us our place to vent and speculate in peace. There's not a lot of happiness, shutting down the bit of info we do have is going to kill what remains. And if I've gotta go looking for tidbits of what Josh is doing at any given time on my own, then there's no real reason for me to come back here. I assume that others feel the same. For those of you who still somehow hold on to the idea that this game is currently in production and viable, well, congratulations, I'm not going to be the one to crush your hopes and dreams, but that doesn't carry over to me, and I (and others) are perfectly entitled to look for info when it is not properly forthcoming from the source who by all rights should be providing it.

/rant
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby Grumblesaur » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:21 pm

Not every time one of us shares our opinion is some official moderator statement. I personally do not approve of the research some of you folks are getting into, but it isn't strictly speaking against the rules. I am not "shutting you down", otherwise I'd have locked this thread a long time ago.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby BFett » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:22 pm

kaeroku wrote:Sadly for us to get access to any of Josh's code to see about bringing it to life, we'd need access to Josh, and that's the same issue we have with getting info on the game and the same issue we have with getting info on refunds. No access, absolutely no engagement from Josh whatsoever.

I gotta admit, the conversation about personal info references constituting doxxing ruffles my feathers a bit. I agree with NonBritGrit's comments and actually find it worrisome that mods would try to remotely tie references to real life, publicly posted and willingly-volunteered info by the persons involved to doxxing. Very very strange to see that level of delusion coming out of leadership here, and it makes me not really want to participate in conversations very much.

Literally the only source of info we have on Josh right now is user-generated, as he's not offering any. Referring to that which he has offered in the past, or info that is publicly available which someone notices, is info. In many ways, by providing that info the people are doing a small amount of what Josh should be doing: Communicating about his status (even in small amounts) which he is not. Whether or not some people find that creepy is irrelevant. If the intent is not malicious it is not doxxing, and should not be treated as poor behavior by mods. If the info is publicly available it is not "disrespecting anyone's privacy" as it is, quite literally by definition, *not* private. And if we're going to be discouraging conversation which is relevant to the developer of the game, then really what's the frakking point anymore?

I'm asking that mods please have some respect for the people here having on-topic discussions, and that if you don't agree it's on topic, you at least consider whether the actions are demonstrably harmful. If they're not, leave us our place to vent and speculate in peace. There's not a lot of happiness, shutting down the bit of info we do have is going to kill what remains. And if I've gotta go looking for tidbits of what Josh is doing at any given time on my own, then there's no real reason for me to come back here. I assume that others feel the same. For those of you who still somehow hold on to the idea that this game is currently in production and viable, well, congratulations, I'm not going to be the one to crush your hopes and dreams, but that doesn't carry over to me, and I (and others) are perfectly entitled to look for info when it is not properly forthcoming from the source who by all rights should be providing it.

/rant

I agree fully with all content in this post. Well said.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby kaeroku » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:00 am

Grumblesaur wrote:Not every time one of us shares our opinion is some official moderator statement. I personally do not approve of the research some of you folks are getting into, but it isn't strictly speaking against the rules. I am not "shutting you down", otherwise I'd have locked this thread a long time ago.


Sorry to burst the bubble man but you're a mod in a position of authority with power over users on the forum. Posts you make are mod posts. You can absolutely say things and intend them informally, but when you make general comments about appropriateness of things, that is automatically made with your authority hat on. I appreciate the comment I quoted nevertheless, because it highlights the fact that what you said wasn't to be taken seriously, which is an important message.

Note that I didn't comment about the other users who shared your opinion other than to say their opinions were irrelevant. Your comment here now places your own comments on the matter firmly in that category for everyone to see.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby Grumblesaur » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:43 am

kaeroku wrote:
Grumblesaur wrote:Not every time one of us shares our opinion is some official moderator statement. I personally do not approve of the research some of you folks are getting into, but it isn't strictly speaking against the rules. I am not "shutting you down", otherwise I'd have locked this thread a long time ago.


Sorry to burst the bubble man but you're a mod in a position of authority with power over users on the forum. Posts you make are mod posts. You can absolutely say things and intend them informally, but when you make general comments about appropriateness of things, that is automatically made with your authority hat on. I appreciate the comment I quoted nevertheless, because it highlights the fact that what you said wasn't to be taken seriously, which is an important message.

Note that I didn't comment about the other users who shared your opinion other than to say their opinions were irrelevant. Your comment here now places your own comments on the matter firmly in that category for everyone to see.


Still putting words in my mouth? I find that inappropriate. :twisted:

kaeroku wrote:Sorry to burst the bubble man but you're a mod in a position of authority with power over users on the forum. Posts you make are mod posts.
[...]
I appreciate the comment I quoted nevertheless, because it highlights the fact that what you said wasn't to be taken seriously, which is an important message.


What I have expressed is that I find a particular behavior distasteful, but that because it is not against the rules, I will not police it. You may recall such a notion in a quote from Evelyn Beatrice Hall (commonly misattributed to Voltaire, although it is a paraphrase of his writing),

Code: Select all
I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.


My verbiage is not quite as righteous as hers, but my meaning is that I'm not going to quell a behavior or activity just because I don't like it. If you feel this is reason enough to ignore me, you can go ahead and ignore me. Ignoring the rules is a different story, but this is a clarification, not an accusation.
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Re: The General Unhappiness Megathread

Postby NonBritGit » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:57 am

BFett wrote:I agree fully with all content in this post. Well said.

Except the 'agreeing with NonBritGrit' part. We'll have no more of that! :ghost: :ghost: :ghost:
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