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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#106
Flatfingers wrote:That "ME:A sucks because EA is trying to shake 'most hated company in America' with diversity hires" theory is definitely making the rounds.

I have suspicions but no hard facts and thus no firm opinion on that.
Having people doing "fake" jobs in a company to make them look like they are diverse certainly appears to support this.

Of course then there is this guy:
Spoiler:      SHOW
Image Image
He should have been fired as soon as he started this, but you know, they didn't want to look like they weren't diverse.

Normally I wouldn't care about this silly stuff. However, I believe the poor quality game is the result of this circus they created.
Flatfingers wrote:To the "big-heads" thing, one person seems to have found alternate character models buried in ME:A. Not only do they look vastly more normal in still frames, it seems the switch to the big-head models might account for the distortions in facial animations.
Spoiler:      SHOW
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I don't know what, if anything, that says about EA/BioWare as a company. It's just more information.
When I look at the two faces side by side I wonder if the "big head, big eyes" was supposed to make the characters more appealing to the Anime crowd? The faces on the right look vastly better regardless.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#107
Zanteogo wrote: When I look at the two faces side by side I wonder if the "big head, big eyes" was supposed to make the characters more appealing to the Anime crowd?
As someone who regularly watches anime, nope nope nope.
(they didn't change the size of the eyes, and besides, the style doesn't work for realistic 3d anyway)
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#108
Ok, it can be confirmed, that Ryder was prettier in an alternative version, Here a playthough with the alternative head-model it:
(less distorted animations, after they made the head more puffy with child features (bigger eyes and a constant smile) the animation went off)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qG2T0F ... e&t=14m54s
Flatfingers wrote:That "ME:A sucks because EA is trying to shake 'most hated company in America' with diversity hires" theory is definitely making the rounds.

I have suspicions but no hard facts and thus no firm opinion on that.

To the "big-heads" thing, one person seems to have found alternate character models buried in ME:A. Not only do they look vastly more normal in still frames, it seems the switch to the big-head models might account for the distortions in facial animations.
Image I don't know what, if anything, that says about EA/BioWare as a company. It's just more information.
Last edited by Damocles on Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#109
Dinosawer wrote:
Zanteogo wrote: When I look at the two faces side by side I wonder if the "big head, big eyes" was supposed to make the characters more appealing to the Anime crowd?
As someone who regularly watches anime, nope nope nope.
(they didn't change the size of the eyes, and besides, the style doesn't work for realistic 3d anyway)
Oh, I never claimed they were SUCCESSFUL at appealing to the anime crowd. It just seems like some clueless suit would do.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#110
IronDuke wrote:
JanB1 wrote:
IronDuke wrote:(...) best bang-for-buck I had was definitely I-War 2. (...)
Hmm...this game looks interesting. Reminds me of another game...
Maybe I-War 1? :ghost: Or Freespace?

--IronDuke
"Freespace" it was. RIght. Thanks.

Damocles wrote:(...) (less distorted animations (...)
Okay, yeah. It looks WAY better. And regarding the animations in the previous Mass Effects, I think this would be actually not really worse. Sadly not better, but not at least not worse.
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Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#111
Zanteogo wrote:
Dinosawer wrote:
Zanteogo wrote: When I look at the two faces side by side I wonder if the "big head, big eyes" was supposed to make the characters more appealing to the Anime crowd?
As someone who regularly watches anime, nope nope nope.
(they didn't change the size of the eyes, and besides, the style doesn't work for realistic 3d anyway)
Oh, I never claimed they were SUCCESSFUL at appealing to the anime crowd. It just seems like some clueless suit would do.
+1
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#113
Mistycica wrote:
Zanteogo wrote: When I look at the two faces side by side I wonder if the "big head, big eyes" was supposed to make the characters more appealing to the Anime crowd? The faces on the right look vastly better regardless.
Spoiler:      SHOW
Image
The resemblance is uncanny. You're onto something here!

:ghost:

I laughed out loud at work. Now I get funny looks. Damn you! :?
Automation engineer, lateral thinker, soldier, addicted to music, books and gaming.
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Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#115
All over the internet it seems that much of the criticism of Mass Effect: Andromeda seems to fixate on the poor facial animations. Are the animations poor? Yes, they are, and I think even animators at BioWare would agree with that. I do think the amount of criticism is excessive and I think the fixation on it makes it tough to find and honest review, but I don't think it's unfair. Mass Effect has long been known for its storytelling, and when the faces of those telling the story aren't convincing, it really harms the ability of players getting into the storyline.

I do think that a shortcoming of this magnitude is inexcusable. While some animators have said that it is because of improved graphics and players becoming more adept at seeing poor facial animation, I do not think this is the case. While the lips weren't always perfectly synced in previous entries, for the most part the eyes were believable (i.e. looking in the correct direction, having proper glossiness, blinking as is appropriate, etc.) and the mouths weren't doing motions that humans simple can't or don't do. If you don't believe me, I'd ask that you go back and watch a few cutscenes from Mass Effect 3. While far from perfect, the facial animation is far less distracting.

In a time where facial capture has been in use for over two decades (for example, it was used heavily in animating Gollum's character in Lord of the Rings), it seems that animation this poor should be well in the past. I would hypothesize that much of the facial animation was not actually done by animators, but rather by software, the animation is far too poor to have been done by someone who has actually watched someone speak.

So, what should be done about this? Unfortunately, I don't know that there is much that can be done, at least not reasonably. The best solution would be to bring everyone who voices a human or asari back in and record their lines again with facial capture (this would also help cure some of the really inconsistent/poor voice acting that comes up in places) and replace the current animations. Unfortunately, this is likely not feasible. Another option would be to use video footage and track the lips and other points on the face to try to get a profile for animators to go off of. Either way, a lot of time would have to be invested to fix the facial animation problem.

As far as the faces go, if the alternate character model can be implemented, they should do that as soon as possible. I may be the biggest Mass Effect fan in this forum, and it is hard for me to get into the story because the presentation is just so poor.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#117
masseffect7 wrote:I may be the biggest Mass Effect fan in this forum, and it is hard for me to get into the story because the presentation is just so poor.
Given your username, I'm strongly inclined to believe you, and was in fact wondering when/if you'd make an appearance. I think you've given the most honest review I've seen. "I really want to like this game, but the animations make it difficult to enjoy, even ignoring the fact that everyone is ripping on it".

Honestly, I can't fathom why they made these decisions (as they do seem to be conscious decisions). I hope they learn from these mistakes... if not... well, I fear we could be seeing the beginning of the end of Bioware.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#118
@Talvieno @Scytale The fact is that the writing in Mass Effect hasn't been the same since they shoved Drew Karpyshyn out (he's the guy who wrote KOTOR, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and many others) before Mass Effect 3 in favor of Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, who both are universally hated serious Mass Effect fans. There definitely are some lines that are cringingly (don't think it's a word, but it is descriptive) bad, both in the writing and delivery. I do like the gameplay a lot. There are bugs, but games of this magnitude almost always have more than their fair share of bugs. I've probably played it about 15 hours since launch and while I do enjoy it, it could be much, much, better. Having poor voice acting and facial animations are unforced errors, and I'm far more forgiving of tech bugs. I really do not like whoever they had voice the female Ryder, whereas in the previous three entries I felt the female Shepard was acted slightly better. The female Ryder sounds way too young and simply isn't really pleasant to listen to. Don't even get me started with what they did with some of the salarian characters, my word they are awful.
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#119
Scytale wrote:
masseffect7 wrote:snip
The other great criticism is on the writing, which coupled with the facial animation kills the whole thing, but I haven't played it so.
... and the below average gameplay, and the horrid voice acting, and the stupid transitions as you go to planets, and the incredibly poor tutorial triggers...


I went into this with pretty low expectations, and even those were crushed. :|
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Re: Mass Effect: Andromeda

#120
Silverware wrote:
Scytale wrote:
masseffect7 wrote:snip
The other great criticism is the writing, which coupled with the facial animation kills the whole thing, but I haven't played it so.
... and the below average gameplay, and the horrid voice acting, and the stupid transitions as you go to planets, and the incredibly poor tutorial triggers...


I went into this with pretty low expectations, and even those were crushed. :|

Man...I wanted to buy this game. But now...maybe as others stated before when it's on sale for 10 bucks or so...
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Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"

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