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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#166
DWMagus wrote:Yeah, but you can disable it. DFHack is not a necessity in order to play the game, even in a succession environment. Tal, if you prefer, we can get together first and see what's happening on my end.
Yeah, let's try to get together and figure out what's going on. DFHack isn't a necessity, but it does make the game significantly easier to play.

Edit: Is it possible you're not using 0.43.03? If you're using 43.05, then that would explain everything you've mentioned. You need to use 43.03. If you don't, LNP would break. I'd consider LNP a requirement for this succession game, because so few people here actually regularly play DF. :P

editedit: Nevermind. Then I wouldn't be able to start it up at all.

Actually, yes, I might be able to. If you started the save on 43.03, switched to 43.05, and then tried to open it with the 43.03 LNP, it wouldn't work. Saves between .03 and .05 are forwards-compatible, but not backwards-compatible. It's very possible that's what you're seeing. There should be absolutely no problem opening something from .03 without DFHack, with DFHack. I know because I just tried it myself and it worked fine. :P
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#170
Okay, so, Magus's embark isn't going to work. It has Evil Murk clouds, which turns dwarves into Evil Murk Thralls.

As an explanation as to why that is a Very Bad Thing, let me post a few snippets from the dwarf fortress wiki.
Evil clouds cause more serious syndromes than evil rains, similar to those of forgotten beasts, titans and demons. Certain evil clouds transform living beings caught in them into dangerous zombie-like thralls, turning them against all life while significantly increasing their strength and toughness attributes.

Evil clouds inflict worse syndromes than evil rains; thralling clouds are especially dangerous in the extreme, as the zombies produced are much stronger than those produced via ambient effects. These undead are very hard to kill and are much stronger than their original forms. Evil clouds have a tendency to roll over your outdoor trade depot and convert traveling merchants into a band of dwarf-hungry savages, which can be crippling to a fortress reliant on trade.
Certain kinds of evil weather can instantly turn any syndrome-vulnerable creature into a bloodthirsty undead killer, opposed to all life. These creatures are referred to be the sort of weather that transformed them, an identifier as a thrall, husk, or zombie, and their original creature name-- for example, a stray guineahen unholy gloom husk. The specific procedurally generated syndromes of thralling evil clouds are functionally identical to that of animate dead, with the same extreme gains in physical stats, lack of pain or breath, etc.

Because the interaction can happen without first killing the target, thrall-like creatures retain any armor or weapons they were carrying. Perhaps worst of all, they may still be contaminated with the material leading to the transformation, "infecting" those with whom they wrestle in a chain reaction that can rapidly destroy a fortress if they are not stopped immediately.
Evil weather thralls may also require utmost caution. Any thrall carrying a melee weapon or armour (let alone any combat skills of its own, which it will retain the use of) can dispatch a full squad in short order even with average combat skills, making direct confrontation an unwise choice- Armok help you if the thrall in question used to be one of your best soldiers. A particularly dire possibility is that, if the responsible evil cloud is in dust form, the thrall is still contaminated with whatever substance transformed it. If this is the case, any dwarves sent to fight the thrall will become thralls themselves if the thrall tries to wrestle them. From there, the new thralls might spread the contaminant further still, which can easily lead to a full-fledged zombie apocalypse.
Finally, thralls move around 8 times as fast as a normal dwarf, and typically can attack around 8 times before a dwarf can get out a single attack.
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#172
Not really. You know I'm an optimist. :) You haven't played Dwarf Fortress since v0.31 (2010ish), and have no idea what you're dealing with. :P It only takes a single thrall to wipe out an entire 200-pop fortress, and thralls never come one at a time. They're fast, they climb, they jump, they're many times stronger than dwarves, and the only thing that kills them is adamantine or a lengthy submergence in magma. (Lengthy being the key word here.) Best of all, they leave dust contaminants everywhere they go - and it only takes a speck of dust to infect another dwarf, which then becomes fully covered with more dust to spread.

This is no elephant. The only reason the fort isn't already dead is because you got lucky in the direction the first cloud took - and there will be more. :P The only way to survive thrall clouds is to turtle the whole game - and turtle hardcore. No caravans or migrants. Nobody goes to the surface. Everybody stays below.

It's a wonderful challenge, and I'd gleefully accept it for a fort on Bay12 with veteran players... but not for this fort, where many of our players have never built hospitals. :P
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#174
DWMagus wrote:So that's it folks, DF succession game is canceled. :ghost:
Na, let's just go full ham.
We have plentiful magma, plentiful females, plentiful rock and metals.

Go underground, collapse the entrance behind you. Expand and grow food, dig down and strike stone.
Draw lifeblood from the volcano, to feed the forges.
Let the ring of steel on steel call out through the warehouses.
Let the surface forget about us, let migrants come in droves to die.
And then, after a few decades underground, grown mighty through breeding, smithing, and training.
We breach a hellhole, and leave ONLY a direct path to the surface.
Let the Hidden Fun Stuff out, let the dust thralls in. Let them at each other.

Conquer hell with dust infected beasts!


It's a story worthy of a Dwarf!
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#176
Actually, Tal, Dwm -
I propose A COMPROMISE!
Since there are ten of us and each of us has 4 weeks, meaning it could take years until the last people get to play - why not make 2 forts at the same time and shuffle the turn order for the second (if people want it to)?
That way you can keep Dwm's embark to see how fast it goes to hell, and you can have an easier embark where the newbs will not fail as horribly, and people get to play more.
Whadya say? :)
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#178
Dinosawer wrote:Actually, Tal, Dwm -
I propose A COMPROMISE!
Since there are ten of us and each of us has 4 weeks, meaning it could take years until the last people get to play - why not make 2 forts at the same time and shuffle the turn order for the second (if people want it to)?
That way you can keep Dwm's embark to see how fast it goes to hell, and you can have an easier embark where the newbs will not fail as horribly, and people get to play more.
Whadya say? :)
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Re: DF Succession Game (Discussion)

#179
I'm not canceling the succession game. :P You guys know me well enough to know I wouldn't take it this far just to cancel it because of a minor setback. I moved the thread out of the way until we were sure of what was going to go down - didn't delete it outright. Wouldn't have done that. But we really can't do this particular succession fort with this embark.
Spoiler:      SHOW
Lemme tell you a little story about one of my previous succession forts, Spearbreakers. We had this modded creature called Holistic Spawn. They were horrifying, bloodless creatures with their ribs and chests cracked open with rows upon rows of sharp, hideous teeth from their abdomen to their neck, with eyeless sockets in their desiccated heads and long razor-sharp claws of obsidian instead of fingers. Better yet, if one managed to bite a dwarf and the dwarf survived, the dwarf would turn into one after a few months. They had their own civilization and came by the hundreds. Best of all, the dwarf's personality and friendships were retained - they would go around slaughtering their kin and former friends with tears running down their faces because the demon that had possessed them left them no control of their actions. Made for really great RP.

Spawn are nothing to demons. Demons will rip through your dwarves like butter, and typically only a massive army of well-trained, well-armored dwarves can take them down.

And demons are nothing to thralls. Thralls move eight times faster than dwarves, attack eight times faster than dwarves, and don't give a shit about blood loss or lost or mangled limbs. They keep their armor and weapons, they climb like they're running on walls, and their skill levels are multiplied by eight. Have an adequate soldier? Now you have a legendary one. And if your soldier is skilled to start out with, well... you get the idea. You're looking at a Flash version of an inside-out Cuisinart. Best of all, the infection spreads like a plague. If a dwarf touches a thrall, or anything a thrall has ever touched, now they're a thrall too. Early game, all it would take is a single dwarf getting in a thrall cloud to lose your fort. Even late game, all that you need to lose is a single caravan.

Even the most advanced players turtle ASAP when they're in a thrall zone, and rarely look at the surface ever again.
As for using the embark like you guys have said, sure! I'd love to! But only if we had some really experienced players who were up for the challenge. A lot of you guys haven't even made hospitals yet, and to me, it just feels like a horribly dick move to make you guys play this embark. What a horrible introduction to Dwarf Fortress, right? I mean, it's bad enough that the UI is garbage, but do you really want to be trapped underground with only a tiny handful of dwarves the whole time too?


I'm all for Dino's idea of having two separate forts. DWMagus can keep his embark, and we could make a different player list for it to see how long it lasts. (Probably not long. :D) But I also really think we need to choose a different embark site as well, for the main succession fort that all of you guys are going to play.

Magus, does that sound like a good idea to you? :) We keep your embark, but make a second fort too where the conditions aren't so rough?
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