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MorrowJosh

#1
Well...It's February 2016. LT still isn't out, we haven't seen a screenshot or a video in a year, and yet here we are, still eagerly awaiting just a screenshot, let alone the game. LT should be used by drug lords as a codeword for cocaine :lol: .

Buuut... I miss theorizing and developing game mechanics. When will MorrowJosh come out, 2020? 2025? 2030? Who knows. It'll be awhile though. But why should that stop us?

We know that MorrowJosh will be inspired by the Elderscrolls game, but if LT is Freelancer 2 and MorrowJosh is Morrowind 2, what will it be like? Morrowind is itself hailed as one of the greatest games of the 21st century in terms of gameplay depth and player freedom and LT is shaping up to be almost as good, if not better (at least per developer ;) ). So how would MorrowJosh improve upon Morrowind in the same way and scale that LT improves upon Freelancer?
JoshParnell wrote:The way I figure it, MorrowJosh will be a part of LT at some point. Maybe 3.0. Imagine landing on a planet in the outer regions of space that's rather undeveloped. Strange architecture. Strange races. Guilds. Perhaps a city by the name of Balmora. You see, it all comes together at some point into the same dream ;)
This forum has produced some of the most intelligent, comprehensive, imaginative, rigorous :geek: discussions on Gameplay Mechanics that I (and probably most of us) have ever seen. Josh and his supporters have turned limitations into assets, passionately hashed out ideas that no one individual (even Josh) would have likely ever come up with on their own, and explored particular mechanics to their very limits. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Can we do the same for a vision of a game that might not even exist for over a decade, a game that is just the glimmer in a young man's eye? What do you want MorrowJosh to be like? And just as important, what does that vision need to be as much an improvement on Morrowind as LT is on Freelancer? :monkey:
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Challenging your assumptions is good for your health, good for your business, and good for your future. Stay skeptical but never undervalue the importance of a new and unfamiliar perspective.
Imagination Fertilizer
Beauty may not save the world, but it's the only thing that can
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Re: MorrowJosh

#3
Never thought I would see this thread, Hyperion. :D

The quote you use was a reply to my one man campaign to get Josh to at least acknowledge that a private conversation between us about the subject had taken place. That conversation ignited something in me that has withstood the vicissitudes of Limit Theory development.

I'm not a theorist and would be happy to see anything that resembles one of my beloved TES games transposed into the LT universe. I will leave the theorizing to the list of LT luminaries you linked to in your post.

I'm still not sure how I will receive the partly Freelancer inspired game known as Limit Theory yet. It has the makings of a satisfying replacement for the venerable original but until I play it for real I'm trying not to get too excited.

I've put a lot of faith in the vision of this young man over the years. I may not be here to appreciate what finally comes from a dimly remembered short conversation I had with him about a shared obsession. So I will read with some delight anything that is added to your thread in the way of ideas. :angel:
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Re: MorrowJosh

#5
It would surprise me if that made its way into an official release, Cody, but the evidence obtained from certain modifications of TES games tends to indicate that in one form or another it will eventually make its way into the modified game. :angel:

Please note, I kept a straight face while writing this post but had to stifle a smile before I actually wrote anything. :mrgreen:
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Re: MorrowJosh

#6
Having not played Morrowwind or any of the Elder Scroll games I'd have to say what I'd like to see would resemble Star Wars. By Star Wars I mean walking around on space stations, and battleships, fighting within them, capturing these battleships from within and flying them anywhere I want to go. I want to see procedural clothing and body armor designs along with various hand held weapons. I also want all the aspects from LT to be added into MorrowJosh, namely the real economy with all the items and resources that it generates.
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Re: MorrowJosh

#8
Well, it's a start, Flat. At least you had the decency to provide some eye candy. :thumbup:

I look forward to your further ruminations on the subject. ;) I can count on you providing some additional text to flesh out your colourful chart content can't I? I don't mind seeing it in serialised format. :angel:
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Re: MorrowJosh

#9
Flatfingers wrote:Image
Traffic lights?

Curiosity quickens, questions arise
Pick out the fools, show me the wise
Who's to know and what's to show
Is amber the step between stop and go!
We pray for one last landing
On the globe that gave us birth
Let us rest our eyes on the fleecy skies
And the cool, green hills of Earth
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Re: MorrowJosh

#13
BFett wrote:Hey, I'd go for that, and would gladly leave my current job to work in a think tank.

To employer: No this doesn't mean I want to be laid-off.
I mean, I know that many people who are on here aren't developers in any shape or form, but I'm sure some people on here could certainly enjoy a nice forum where they can troubleshoot ideas (as I have seen in the Offtopic forum) and form the ultracompany - Ermehgawd Studios.
Image "Everyone needs to have their avatar's edited to have afros." -Charley Deallus
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Re: MorrowJosh

#14
Well, the discussion in this thread got me thinking again, given the changes and progress we've seen in the past >2 years (has it really been that long?), what would Morrowjosh look like? Might Morrowjosh just be a (sizable) mod for LT? If not, what does Morrowjosh NEED to have, that can simply not be modded into LT?

Some initial ideas and thoughts
Context-aware Environmental-storytelling:
Morrowind was a finite, hand crafted place. Morrowjosh will be an infinite number of vast regions, none of which can be hand crafted. Morrowind made heavy use of environmental storytelling, and required the player to become invested in the world and learn enough context to know what to do. How can that be accomplished procedurally?

Anyone Anything Anywhere Anytime:
Morrowind had a main story, with a beginning and an end, and the player grew in a fluid manner to progress from weakness to strength, ignorance to wisdom. How could Morrowjosh handle players of indeterminate strength and armament dropping into the world anywhere at anytime and still provide a compelling reason to stay and get involved? There needs to be a reason more compelling to go on adventures rather than bomb the planet from orbit, mow down residents in a suit of power armor, or throw the natives onto reservations while you set up a mining operation... Yet those too should be possible.

What will already be
I think it's safe to say that LT will be a rich dynamic, "living" world that responds realistically to player and non-player actions. It already has complex procedural models that could fairly easily be adapted to be buildings, plants, artifacts, and so on. It already has (though not yet at date of writing) dynamic, responsive factions, economies, colonies, environments. LT already operates on many core mechanics that would be present in Morrowjosh, so it would need to offer that many more mechanics to be more than just an LT mod.

What will likely be
It's Q2 2018, with an optimistic release window of Q4 2018 to Q1 2019, Morrowjosh would come around 2022 at the very earliest.
Beyond the flood of mods already planned, and the tsumani of mods yet to be imagined that will come between LT 1.0 and Morrowjosh 1.0, we have to consider the developments taking place in the world at large.
As a rough guess, let's say that available computation is an order of magnitude greater in 2022 than 2018. That AI has a track record of creating artificial faces, artificial voices, artificial content, and artificial environments that feel nearly indistinguishable from reality.
How then can such advancements be used in Morrowjosh?



Could we see multi-biome planets with semi-real simulations of the climate, ecology, geological activity, hard magic, real and detailed histories, mythologies, and cultures with varying technological levels? Could we find among some ruins, a legendary weapon that was actually used in several famous battles, passed on for generations only to be lost in an earthquake that destroyed the city whose ruins we're now exploring?

Could we encounter the boy whose people consider him a living god because his family has controlled for generations, an ancient alien artifact... That we ourselves traded to his ancestors for food and shelter after a crash landing on the same planet earlier in the game?

Could we genetically engineer a disease that turns cattle into huge mutated monsters that terrorize the countryside and watch as the local armies hopelessly try to fight them off... Only to imbue some lucky peasant with the powers of the chosen one who can defeat them... But not tell her and watch her life go crazy as people around her freak out over her new abilities?

Could we throw an asteroid at a city, only to have a local god stop it suspended over the city and turned into a temple to that god's glory?
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Challenging your assumptions is good for your health, good for your business, and good for your future. Stay skeptical but never undervalue the importance of a new and unfamiliar perspective.
Imagination Fertilizer
Beauty may not save the world, but it's the only thing that can
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Re: MorrowJosh

#15
Hyperion wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:48 pm
Could we see multi-biome planets with semi-real simulations of the climate, ecology, geological activity, hard magic, real and detailed histories, mythologies, and cultures with varying technological levels? Could we find among some ruins, a legendary weapon that was actually used in several famous battles, passed on for generations only to be lost in an earthquake that destroyed the city whose ruins we're now exploring?
I hear Bay12 may be working on something which may interest you. :ghost:

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