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Re: Star Citizen

#1756
cruisin1500 wrote:I'm beginning to really doubt SC. I think on one hand, it has one saving grace...you only have to pay a minimum of 30 dollars for the game. No one is forcing anyone to pay for anything extra.
Here's the issue I see:
There are people that backed the Kickstarter that have never been to the RSI site. They pledged for a certain set of features and were given an estimated release date. So lets say some guy pledged $250 for the RSI Constellation. The estimated release date has come and gone and sure it's an estimate but we're not even close to release and the game being developed now doesn't match the one the backer supported (again, this hypothetical backers has never been to the RSI site to see all the extra ships, stretch goals, etc.)

For the record I'm pretty sure I backed the project on RSI BEFORE the Kickstarter launched (though some articles seem to indicate the RSI crowdfunding started after the Kickstarter making me question my memory.) I only backed the kickstarter at the $5 reward level (because of my larger pledge at RSI) so I'd only be entitled to a $5 refund (which isn't even worth the effort to me). I've also bought several ships since (I think I'm up to around 6 now for a total cost of several hundred dollars) and I'm still hoping the game eventually comes out. Despite the fact that I don't want a refund nor do I think I'm personally entitled to one (beyond the $5 Kickstarter pledge) that doesn't stop me from understanding others may be in a different situation. I backed on RSI knowing full well that money may just be gone and they they would keep adding stretch goals, that's NOT how Kickstarter works though. In hindsight I'd say it was a mistake by them to even go on Kickstarter. I do think that the change of scope and resulting delays since the kickstarter closed entitles kickstarter backers to a refund if they so choose. I would hope that they'd buy into the larger vision and give it more time but I can understand if they choose not to and don't think they should be attacked because of that choice.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1757
Idunno wrote:
Scytale wrote:
DigitalDuck wrote:So, are all 2012 Kickstarter-funded space games a con? First ED, then SC... not looking good for LT.

Alternatively, looking great for LT because its competition is shit. One way or the other. :mrgreen:
I think it's an expression that the vast majority of kickstarted games just don't end up meeting pitch goals or even release at all. I say that from impression, not from hard evidence, so feel free to contradict :P
It's like a carton of eggs. You peek in, see a broken one, and you don't bother to buy it. :ghost:
I did more than just peek, but I did also just say it was an impression =P At this point I would like to see numbers.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1758
cruisin1500 wrote:On the other hand what game besides Wing Commander has CR really done? If you say Freelancer, I'll say FL had the same issues we're seeing now, CR was fired, and the game pushed out, yeah a good game by all standards, but if it was up to CR it would probably still be in development.
Wait, what? This might be because I'm not a Freelancer buff, but CR was fired from that project before it was released? Got any more info? I'm really curious now... and saddened of the SC fate that may come. :(

TBH, the only reason why I'm saying that SC will fail is because it feels like the managerial side of the project has already failed. How often do you hear of people winning the lottery, only to be broke again in months? Yeah, that's how it feels on the management side here.
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1759
DWMagus wrote: Wait, what? This might be because I'm not a Freelancer buff, but CR was fired from that project before it was released? Got any more info? I'm really curious now... and saddened of the SC fate that may come. :(
Well it's a documented fact that Chris Roberts left Digital Anvil in 2000 after Microsoft bought them.
In 2001 Microsoft demonstrated a stripped down version of Freelancer from Chris Roberts original game design.
The game was released in 2003.

I don't think MS or anyone is going to come right out and say he was fired but that's the generally accepted story. He over promised and couldn't deliver so he was removed from the project and it was revised to more attainable goals and shipped about 3 years after he left. They did keep him on as a "consultant" though.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1760
Asmodai wrote:
DWMagus wrote: Wait, what? This might be because I'm not a Freelancer buff, but CR was fired from that project before it was released? Got any more info? I'm really curious now... and saddened of the SC fate that may come. :(
Well it's a documented fact that Chris Roberts left Digital Anvil in 2000 after Microsoft bought them.
In 2001 Microsoft demonstrated a stripped down version of Freelancer from Chris Roberts original game design.
The game was released in 2003.

I don't think MS or anyone is going to come right out and say he was fired but that's the generally accepted story. He over promised and couldn't deliver so he was removed from the project and it was revised to more attainable goals and shipped about 3 years after he left. They did keep him on as a "consultant" though.

do you have any articles from the original idea of Freelancer? would be interesting to read that
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Re: Star Citizen

#1761
Cornflakes_91 wrote: do you have any articles from the original idea of Freelancer? would be interesting to read that
From the wikipedia entry under Development:

"In 1997, Chris Roberts began work on a vision he had since he first conceived Wing Commander. He wanted to realize a virtual galaxy, whose systems execute their own programs regardless of the players' presence; cities would be bustling with transports and each world's weather changes on its own time. Commodity prices in each star system would fluctuate, according to the activities of the computer controlled traders, who import and export goods. Roberts envisioned thousands of players simultaneously interacting with and influencing this world through a unique and intuitive user interface never seen before in other games. Each player could pursue a quest set up for their character, and join other players to attempt other missions together without needing to exit the game and start a new mode of play. Artificial intelligence would fly the players' spacecraft, letting them concentrate on combat or other tasks. Roberts intended the cutscenes and gameplay visuals to be of equal quality so players would be unable to distinguish between the two."

Microsoft bought Digital Anvil, Chris Roberts left:

"Microsoft instructed Digital Anvil to scale down the ambitions of the project and focus on finishing the game based on what was possible and the team's strengths. Features such as the automated flight control, conversations that had different choices of responses, and sub-quests were abandoned."

The wikipedia article has source links if you want to follow where they got the information from.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1763
Basically he's come back to do what he wanted to do back in 2001. Which is why he mentions every other post that its great to be free of publishers. So in 2001, 4 years after he started the project, and likely had nothing to show or serious issues, Microsoft as the publisher made certain decisions, so the game could see the light of day, CR didn't like that and left. DA continued on and released FL in 2003 and it was a good game.

I don't for one minute believe that SC is a scam. That's ludicrous. But I do believe that their is massive feature creep, too much being planned for the 'initial release', too much focus on perfection (see my earlier post), and huge technical and ability hurdles. Using an engine on the market, not your own custom engine, to do a uniquely ground breaking game, FPS, Space flight, Metaverse, planet walking, ship boarding, multicrew gameplay etc.... spells disaster to me.

He's had to throw together a mish mash of people to create something ground breaking. It is like NASA gathering different scientists from all over the world, then saying to them, now create warp drive. I think some of those people are seeing that this game will never be released, and are leaving for more sure jobs, as long as they can secure the job offers.

Up to now almost three years later, I doubt the bengal carrier has been fully modelled.

In their monthly reports I still see them mentioning they are having meetings to 'iron out' certain details of X, which after three years should have already been a given, this suggests more pre-production is on-going than production. So at the end of the day you have a bunch of art assets, some code... and a project at least 3 years away from completion even in a basic form.

It is said that the metaverse would be released by the end of the year with 5 explorable systems. All the ships would not be in, the pledged ships. And this would be an alpha.

I forsee Sq42 being completed in late 2016. Metaverse being completed in late 2018 or early 2019, which perhaps some playable versions (with actual content) in late 2016.
So it's going to take a while.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1767
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Kambalo wrote:SC---am= Scam.
You have surely some data on why it should be a scam?

A scam requires malicious intent, intent never to deliver.

But from what i see they try, they really try but strech themself far too thin and are far too ambicious.

Its probably a failure, yes.
But a scam? No
QFT. It's so easy for us to say they meant to screw us over when really they were just incompetent planners.

(Then again, maybe the planets will align and SC will arrive as promised.)
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Re: Star Citizen

#1768
It's so easy for us to say they meant to screw us over when really they were just incompetent planners.
This is so true and it's usually anger talking when the 'scam' posts start in. I think we've all seen game devs (newb and seasoned) get in way over their heads and basically end up with a tiger by the tail. In SC's case, it seems they have no one in control that knows how to handle a project this big. I still have high hopes for it since playing the original wing commander.
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Re: Star Citizen

#1770
Scott Manley made an small video about the last update (for the test universe only):

Star Citizen Update - Merlin! Scythe! Drama! No FPS

The Merlin looks pretty cool, actually, much better than what I thought from the design. I'm not sure however if I like that they changed the scythe stats. I hope that this change was made because it makes sense and not because it makes things easier.

I also hope they do something about the walking controls. The character movements look so silly in this video (and in many others). I wonder if this is something that CIG should do or not, because maybe it has nothing to do with the game but it's the players fault. Maybe players are too stupid.

I have read this article on The Astronauts page, GAMERS ARE THE ULTIMATE TROLLS (I confess guilty of charge myself), and I find the idea that you could ignore players stupidity altogether and just focus on create a good experience for the right public, ignoring the rest. (As the author of the article, Adrian Chmielarz, says, not having to add "security measure every step of the way" will improve the game content quantity and would reduce time development significantly.)

You have to considerer what may happen if the game tries to prevent players stupidity. Dear Esther creators did exactly that removing the run functionality and players just went crazy about it.

I think that in this case CIG could make things a little easier, because I just feel so uncomfortable walking around on Arena Commander and this could end up being very problematic on Star Marine if not fixed right. The worst thing about it, as we all know, will be the multiplayer portion of the game, because even if I try to behave properly and try to do just what I think my character would do and it feels right, it will not do any good if everybody around me are going to be running and jumping like idiots. On the other hand however, knowing that other people are watching me could prevent some of the most stupid manifestations of my own trolling. This is an interesting topic I think, particularly for me, because almost every time I see people playing on Youtube I realize how different every body seem to play from me. We all enjoy gaming differently, and this is not usually a problem when you are free to enjoy your game alone in the privacy of your home. (That's in fact a good thing: We are free to play our games however we like.) But it has different connotations when we talk about a multyplayer experience. You are not alone anymore, other people are watching, and how they play the game becomes an important part of your own experience.
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