On co-op multiplayer: System Shock 2 may not be the best choice for an example of adding co-op to a fundamentally single-player game experience:

Ken Levine wrote:I don't think it was a win. The single player game would have been much, much, much stronger if we had that time back.

That's not to say UA can't do it better by baking it into the early design of a more modern game. I just wouldn't use SS2 as my example if I wanted to promote the idea of including co-op in a mostly single-player game; some annoying person is likely to trot out that Ken Levine quote.

On funding: the developers have commented that they know who the four $10K backers are (through their accounts).

To my mind, that means they're building in a cushion based on their perceived reliability of the backers. If the backers are Richard Garriott and Chris Roberts, for example, I think it's probably safe to assume those pledges will stick.

Some other news I've picked up from developer comments:

1. Otherside have partnered with GOG, and will be providing a DRM-free copy of Underworld Ascendant.

2. At the $75 pledge level and up, backers get free copies of Ultima Underworld and Ultima Underworld II. These will be provided via GOG.

Better and better.

Flatfingers wrote:Some other news I've picked up from developer comments:

1. Otherside have partnered with GOG, and will be providing a DRM-free copy of Underworld Ascendant.

2. At the $75 pledge level and up, backers get free copies of Ultima Underworld and Ultima Underworld II. These will be provided via GOG.

Better and better.

It's a nice gesture, Flat, but I don't really need another copy of the previous games. A much more satisfying idea would have been to offer free copies of Shroud of the Avatar. I didn't back that one.

I do like the idea of partnering with GOG though.

Victor Tombs wrote:

Flatfingers wrote:2. At the $75 pledge level and up, backers get free copies of Ultima Underworld and Ultima Underworld II. These will be provided via GOG.

It's a nice gesture, Flat, but I don't really need another copy of the previous games. A much more satisfying idea would have been to offer free copies of Shroud of the Avatar. I didn't back that one.

GOG.com are already selling both the original Underworld games, but in a Dosbox version.

Otherside have said in their forums that they have the source code to both games. I'd like it if they tweaked the originals to run natively in Windows, but not really expecting it.

Flatfingers wrote:Otherside have said in their forums that they have the source code to both games. I'd like it if they tweaked the originals to run natively in Windows, but not really expecting it.

That's something I would also like to see, Flat. I wouldn't mind seeing a totally remastered version of the games but that's even more unlikely.

Victor Tombs wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing a totally remastered version of the games but that's even more unlikely.

Get out of mah brain!

I've probably said it before but I don't mind repeating myself in this case: I would love to see visually enhanced versions of both Ultima Underworlds, as well as System Shock, with integrated WASD+mouse controls, but that otherwise retain the same mechanics. It would make me very happy if today's gamers could see exactly why it is that fans of these games consider them among the finest examples of immersive sim -- and general game design -- ever created.

While doing a bit of web trawling today, my nets came up with something that might be of interest to fans of Looking Glass.

Tim Stellmach, one of the designers for Looking Glass games and lead designer for Underworld Ascension, posted a blog entry back in June of 2010 that included several videos taken on the last day of business for Looking Glass Studios.

It's definitely bittersweet. On the other hand, it's not as sad as it would be if Otherside was not working on a new game in the Looking Glass style.

Those who haven't seen these videos and are interested in this sort of thing may find them worth watching.

So I give the award for the most dedicated Looking Glass fanboy I've ever known to Flatfingers.

Now tell us Flat, what is your most memorable moment as a truly notable AAA fan of Looking Glass?

Oh, and who do you want to play you in the film?

I'd be forced to respectfully point out the people who have kept the LG online fan communities running continuously ever since the days of the original System Shock; created amazing binary hacks and source ports to keep the games running; created an unending stream of high-quality fan missions; and generally kept the torch burning all these years. (But Flatfingers is awesome too :)

p.s. One of those aforementioned binary hacks of amazingness actually does add mouselook to System Shock. It's an incredible piece of work. It does make the game easier, mind you, so YMMV. There is no such thing for the Underworlds, I'm afraid; but the news that Otherside do have the source code for those is more than a little exciting, as I don't recall that ever being confirmed publicly. Maybe there's a chance that EA and Otherside will green-light a release of that code?! That would be amazing.

Employee 2-4601 wrote:I'd be forced to respectfully point out the people who have kept the LG online fan communities running continuously ever since the days of the original System Shock; created amazing binary hacks and source ports to keep the games running; created an unending stream of high-quality fan missions; and generally kept the torch burning all these years. (But Flatfingers is awesome too

I'm just having a bit of fun with Flat, Employee 2-4601. Going back to early days here on the LT forums/podcast he's always waved the flag for Looking Glass.

And rightly so.

I cede pride of place to no one in singing the praises of the games that Looking Glass Studios made. They got me as no other game developer ever has. I think I could defend that statement beyond just myself, to make a point about what LGS meant to the entire Western game industry and why it is so exciting that they've put the band back together, but I'll spare you.

That said, I specifically commented last week on the OtherSide forums that we might not be having this conversation at all were it not for the fan site Through The Looking Glass, better known as TTLG. Since before 2000, when LGS closed its doors, the TTLG community kept the flame burning for players and modders and critics and fans of the Looking Glass games, particularly Ultima Underworld 1 & 2, System Shock, and Thief. So I'm right there with you, 2-4601 -- TTLG deserves to be credited.

As for stories... the one that sticks out in my mind is getting chased by bandits in UU, racing my character through hallways (on the enormous 20-inch monitor I weaseled for my office back in 1992), and realizing that as I rounded each corner, I was leaning my physical body. I know that's nothing today, but Ultima Underworld was the first texture-mapped, 3D CRPG world, and the sense of immersion in that world was a completely new and unique thing. To discover myself reacting so intensely to playing a game... there'd just never been anything like that.

Finally, who should play me in the film? Warren Spector, of course.

For me, old school games have always been great not because of graphics or even the story but the style and how everything in the game world works together to make the game greater than the sum of its parts.

I'm hesitant to back Ascension as I've been burned too many times by reboots in the last couple of years. There's always something missing in the name of doing it better than they could have 20+ years ago. There's a reason why those games are being rebooted and it's not because they can make the game "better" than they could.. it's because those games were classics in their own time.

I just can't get behind another reboot.. even Shrouds of the Avatar is completely off-kilter with my expectations of the game. I was hoping for a Ultima Online in 3D.. but the problem is that the shift to 1st/3rd person 3D has changed the game itself and I find myself waiting and waiting for each new build, hoping desperately that they will bring the game back to the greatness that was Ultima Online..

I can't blame you.

SotA is one of the few Kickstarters I regret. I don't wish them ill; I'm just very turned off by their unwillingness to be direct and honest about pushing "home sales" in Every Single Official Communication. To keep sticking their hands out, even after the Kickstarter and the likely external investor money it attracted, just rubs me the wrong way.

And the fact is that Richard Garriott and Starr Long seem pretty tight with Paul Neurath of OtherSide. They did a promotional video together. There will be some kind of crossover stuff. If that makes you nervous about backing UA, you won't hear me complain.

All I can say is that, as someone who feels a bit burned by SotA, I'm not getting the same vibe off of Underworld Ascendant. So far the team have been as forthcoming as they can be in their forums about what they want to do, and what they're curious about from the community of fans of the original games. That's not to say they won't lurch into doing some weird business thing at some point; I can only state that I personally haven't seen any sign of such nonsense, but I have seen some pretty straightforward communication.

Happily, you don't have to decide now. Still 24 days to go in the Kickstarter. And of course you don't even have to decide then -- if the game comes out and people say it's good, you're free to try it then if you like.

Yeah, I can understand that too, and I'd certainly never criticise anyone for being risk-averse with Kickstarter. Personally I haven't really been burned by Kickstarter yet, but I've been awfully picky about what I give money to, and if I don't have any particular reason to back something, then caution is my default position. (I've certainly seen the results of some projects I'd been tempted by, and been pleased that I'd kept my money.)

Backing Underworld Ascension was an easy decision for me, because what ultimately matters to me is that I'm supporting the nearest thing to an official Looking Glass revival that we've seen. The incredible value and enjoyment I've received in return for the money I've spent on Looking Glass games in the past makes me happy to throw some more of it in the direction of Otherside, just to help them succeed in this new endeavour; and so I actually can't get burned on this one -- I know I'm not going to regret doing this, even if the game ends up being a disappointment (although I have quite a lot of faith that it will be no such thing).

The Stygian Abyss makes the typical fantasy game’s above-ground assortment of medieval towns and wilderness seem stale by comparison.

That's a kick to Shroud of the Avatar if I ever saw one

Flatfingers, are you able to change the title of this thread? Should be "Ascendant", not Ascension...My urge for everything to be "correct" is killing me sometimes

Edit: Doh, nevermind, it was already fixed! How could I not see that..

plillevold wrote: Edit: Doh, nevermind, it was already fixed! How could I not see that..

Because it wasn't, he fixed it after your question. You can see it by the title of your post.
...
An interview on RPS that Flatfingers hasn't posted yet, how can this be? Are you sick Flat?