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Re: No Man's Sky

#16
ThymineC wrote:I was reading an article about it here. It says:

"I look forward to hearing more about No Man’s Sky. It looks to have the potential to unseat Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, and Limit Theory from their places in the eagerly anticipated space simulation throne room."

It's awesome that Limit Theory is being referenced alongside those giants.
Great to see LT getting some love but no, they would have to show off a looooooooot more before it would have the chance of unseating any of those games.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#17
Looks great! Whilst the MMO aspect doesn't especially grab me, the fact that I can play it on a widescreen tv is very appealing. :)

Let's face it, the console gamer market is also huge, and not all console gamers are addicted to COD, sadly though console gamers don't have much to choose from in space games, let alone procedurally generated ones. It's an unknown country for them, so many console gamers have never heard of Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous. Millions of console gamers getting the potential to play a PCG space game will open their minds to what can be, just the way Freelancer etc inspired Josh back in the day. Might even trigger the same sort of Renaissance for this type of game on consoles too, which can only be good. :thumbup:

Maybe Josh can patent his AI and sell it to Hellogames, so they can make a single player mode!
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Re: No Man's Sky

#18
Just to be clear, my comments about this game being designed to work on consoles (albeit "next-gen" consoles) and multiplayer were simply things I don't care for. Those features don't necessarily make No Man's Sky a bad game; they just make it one less interesting to me.

Having said that, let's understand that choosing to support consoles in addition to PCs, while it gives you access to more pocketbooks, comes with some tradeoffs:
  • multiplatform requires additional programming and testing -- that costs time and money
  • designing for consoles first means not being able to include features that PCs could handle (less true for the PS4/Xbone, but still)
  • Sony/Microsoft must review and approve every package of code changes
I'm not intending to start a consoles vs. PC debate. I'm simply noting that Hello Games's choice is not without practical consequences affecting who plays their game and why. That doesn't mean it's the wrong choice for them.

So again, I'm all for this game being made. A little competition is healthy. ;) It's just got some things that make it less appealing to me personally.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#19
ThymineC wrote:I was reading an article about it here. It says:

"I look forward to hearing more about No Man’s Sky. It looks to have the potential to unseat Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, and Limit Theory from their places in the eagerly anticipated space simulation throne room."

It's awesome that Limit Theory is being referenced alongside those giants.
Yeah that is indeed awesome. To tell the truth though, i think none of the 3 (SC, ED & LT) were directly competing with each other... Star Citizen is just... different... it's not a traditional space sim in any way and one of it's biggest selling point is graphics quality. ED is a continuation of the legendary Elite series, but as an MMO, sure it's similar to LT in concept but it is an MMO and will be limited as such. LT is a raw single player experience (with possible multiplayer mods i'd guess), it is going to be at least to some extent moddable (SC will be too through private servers though which is interesting), but out of these 3 none of the games are so strikingly similar that i could choose one over the other. ED & SC are both mmos set in space, but apart from that, they share very few similarities, the design is just worlds apart. LT is a single player game and it just so happens i love single player games, theres just something about them, the AI, not being limited by the game being multiplayer (features that just don't play well with being multiplayer...) and stuff.

As for fishing for compliments, as human beings it is what drives us. keeps us going. Compliments are one of the most powerful motivators known to mankind, we're exactly like dogs :monkey:
This is something i know and have used to manipulate others when helping them out with mental problems. Most notably i fixed someone's self esteem just by showering them with compliments 8-) (it took a few months, but it started having an effect from day 1.)

The most effective compliments are the ones we weren't expecting.
This is where the cat is from and yes you should definitely watch that.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#20
From the videos/interviews I've gathered that this game is intended to be played online which immediately (in my humble opinion) puts it in a different class of game all together from LTheory.

I realize that this is an incredibly dubious statement: However, does anyone else feel a little like Star Citizen, Elite: Dangerous and now this "No Man's Sky" are sidestepping independently functioning simulations by assuming: "It's online! The players will do it!" Artificial intelligence is an incredibly difficult aspect to get just right. Rather than tackle the prospect of an actually functionally reasoning AI they are able to shovel "gamey AI" (I.E. Freelancer) and assume the dynamism will be the result of player activity alone. Again I am not accusing or belittling them (it is simply a feeling I've gotten and frankly it has been proven to work very well int he past (I.E. Freelancer)).

Also I can't help but wonder exactly what "Procedural" means in this context. As a persistent online game it simply cannot be built procedurally on the fly. Perhaps something akin to Starbound? I recall that Oblivion was considered "Procedurally Generated" as the developers actually generated the world with algorithms and then touched them up by hand before the game was shipped. Doing it in that fashion (up front) seems to me to be an utterly different prospect than a game like Limit Theory.

Edit: Spelling
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Re: No Man's Sky

#21
While i agree with you fives that MMO is just an excuse for shortened development time and money grabbing usually, at least in recent games. Not needing to code a fully functional AI certainly makes things easier.

But from what i can see Star Citizen isn't going to be taking any shortcuts in the "AI" area and are in fact making a full single-player campaign called squadron 42.

I also doubt that Elite Dangerous will make any unimpressive AI, i'm sure just like Josh They'll rely heavily on PCG techniques to make their AI unique. I mean these are the same guys that made "Elite" we're talking about here. But they're likelier to make an unimpressive AI than Star Citizen.

However No Man's Sky most likely like most MMOs is going to use the fact that it's an MMO to make things easier in the AI department, at least that's what i would think. I think MMO is usually a cheap way to dodge the difficulties that lie in making an immersive and fun single player experience. Making NPCs alive enough so that you don't need humans to make up for it is a pretty difficult task, but exactly because they're not humans is why i often prefer them over my fellow players in multiplayer. The only times i think it's interesting to play against other human players is when it's in a competitive sense, trying to prove which human is better. The PVP. World of Tanks & League of Legends for example.

Oblivion was a disgrace in terms of procedural generation. If they used it at all, they clearly didn't have any frakking idea how to (and they learned and didn't rely on it at all in Skyrim, thats why skyrim is so much more beautiful, it's hand crafted)
This is where the cat is from and yes you should definitely watch that.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#22
Fives wrote:I realize that this is an incredibly dubious statement: However, does anyone else feel a little like Star Citizen, Elite: Dangerous and now this "No Man's Sky" are sidestepping independently functioning simulations by assuming: "It's online! The players will do it!" Artificial intelligence is an incredibly difficult aspect to get just right. Rather than tackle the prospect of an actually functionally reasoning AI they are able to shovel "gamey AI" (I.E. Freelancer) and assume the dynamism will be the result of player activity alone. Again I am not accusing or belittling them (it is simply a feeling I've gotten and frankly it has been proven to work very well int he past (I.E. Freelancer)).
Absolutely I feel like that, which is part of why I believe that the AI may be what sets LT apart. Given the nature of the other games, they simply don't need to have as complex of AI. Though maybe that's not the case. But we'll see :)

Also, one more thing about the NMS video:

I have watched it many times now, and after this many watches, there's one thing of which I'm sure: it's going to be a fun game. For some reason, every time I watch the video, I just think, "these devs really have a good handle on fun." Everything just looks fun. Hard to explain, but it feels as though every detail of the game is centered around giving the user a fun experience, from the beautiful planet surfaces to, for example, the short amount of time that it takes to get back into space, to having ships gratuitously flying through the atmosphere, to blasting holes in things, to the obviously-Frank-Hebert-inspired sand worms :D

I have no doubt it will be a truly fun game, so I look forward to it :)
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
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Re: No Man's Sky

#23
“We wanted to make a game about exploration. So in our game when you stand on a planet and you see a mountain, if that mountain is three miles away, or wherever it is, you can see it you can walk there. You can go and you can explore it. But if you see a planet on the horizon, that’s a real place, you can see features on it and you can hop in your ship and you can go there. But it’s even more than that: if it’s night time or you’re in space and you see all the stars, those are real stars, those are suns, and they have planets around them. You can go and visit them.”
They just described exactly what i want from a game. The key thing of course is how they make interesting non-repeating worlds. And i'm not really interested in building empires and managing fleets, however knowing that that stuff is happening somewhere and experience some of the side effects gives a lot of depth and meaning to a game.
So it still come down to the dynamic stuff. And if AI is stupid and/or feels like hard-coded state machines it will break immersion.
Anyway, dat feel of spore demo is BACK!
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Re: No Man's Sky

#24
NMS looks awesome. However, of all these space games (SC, ED and now NMS) I still have LT on top of my list. Why? Partly because of Josh being a brilliant mind with a awesome plan but also because this ongoing and good dialogue the forum members have with Josh and with each other.

I do not post ideas very often on the forum these days (I read every day) ... mostly because I do not have to ... there are already a large group of people posting awesome ideas everyday :D

Keep up the good work folks :thumbup:
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Re: No Man's Sky

#25
I'll be getting this game, as long as they get the seamless exploration part right (and release on PC, obviously). As it is, it looks like the perfect Noctis successor to me.

And I don't really view LT, this game, and Elite as rivals, to the extent that they don't sabotage each other's financial health by cannibalizing on the market share. Obviously that's a concern for Josh more than the others, though. Otherwise, they all serve the greater and might I say, holy purpose of resurrecting free-form space simulation games.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#26
alpan wrote:I'll be getting this game, as long as they get the seamless exploration part right (and release on PC, obviously). As it is, it looks like the perfect Noctis successor to me.
Yes yes yes!!! I love Noctis and it definitely feels like a potential successor to me :D :thumbup:
codeape wrote:I do not post ideas very often on the forum these days (I read every day) ... mostly because I do not have to ... there are already a large group of people posting awesome ideas everyday :D

Keep up the good work folks :thumbup:
Yeahh we have a couple of good fellas around here don't we :3
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
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Re: No Man's Sky

#27
Rabcor wrote:Check this

Is this awesome? or is it awesome?

We have another upcoming, fully procedurally generated space sim.
Want. Want want want.

I just literally threw my wallet at the monitor screen so I could write this sentence about throwing my wallet at the monitor screen.
- The Snark Knight

"Look upward, and share the wonders I've seen."
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Re: No Man's Sky

#28
:lol: nice one Just_Ice! reminds me of a video i once saw in the end of wingman's hangar where someone was throwing his money at the star citizen teaser (i still can't find the damn vid on youtube though :( it'd be a favorite.)
Bikas wrote:
“We wanted to make a game about exploration. So in our game when you stand on a planet and you see a mountain, if that mountain is three miles away, or wherever it is, you can see it you can walk there. You can go and you can explore it. But if you see a planet on the horizon, that’s a real place, you can see features on it and you can hop in your ship and you can go there. But it’s even more than that: if it’s night time or you’re in space and you see all the stars, those are real stars, those are suns, and they have planets around them. You can go and visit them.”
They just described exactly what i want from a game. The key thing of course is how they make interesting non-repeating worlds. And i'm not really interested in building empires and managing fleets, however knowing that that stuff is happening somewhere and experience some of the side effects gives a lot of depth and meaning to a game.
So it still come down to the dynamic stuff. And if AI is stupid and/or feels like hard-coded state machines it will break immersion.
Anyway, dat feel of spore demo is BACK!
Holy crap that sounds amazing...

As for fun, that's what games are for right? fun? this is one of the reasons i never got along too well with MMO communities or competitive game communities (League of Legends...) where everything is dead cheerios and losing a game is the equivalent of apocalypse. I mean are we soccer stars that cry :cry: "foul!" when we scrape our poor little knees or are we gamers that can take a loss like real men and say "i'll just do better next... Losing is a part of the game.".

Look at grand theft auto 4, then look at saints row 3... the former may have been a decent game (even if i wouldn't say so) and quite a technological advancement at the time of it's release... But the latter was much much much more fun, and loved by most fans of the former for just letting them go wild and destroy everything instead of punishing you for acting like a madman. I usually like it when games throw away "realism" in favor of "fun". If i want real, i go out for a walk or go enjoy some martial arts lessons (those are seriously fun, have you tried Traditional(Japanese) Ju-Jitsu (or just Judo...) it's just so fun to THROW people twice your size like they were light as a feather... I saw a one legged woman do that too, that was really cool! about as cool as a one legged stripper)
This is where the cat is from and yes you should definitely watch that.
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Re: No Man's Sky

#30
JoshParnell wrote:Noctis
:shock:

Just when I thought it was too obscure to even mention here...

Unfortunately for this game the magic (or not so magic?) word was MMO and that put me off indefinitely (unless they decide to revisit that direction). I wish them all the best and look forward to the release...

...of LT. :lol:
In Josh we trust.

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