Limit Theory Forums

Further, I think it is relatable. Alot of people try to pull something difficult off with force off will, putting massive amounts of time and effort into it, only to fail catestrophically. Josh put SIX YEARS, parts of his sanity not easily recovered, and probably relationships not easily rebuilt into this project and he failed to complete it.

I think alot of people can empathize with that on a lesser scale: everyone deals with failure, and it never feels good especially when you gave it your all in earnest, and did it on the time, money, and goodwill of others.

To put it a bit more bluntly, I wouldn't want to realize I traded 6 years of my life, my sanity, and my most cherished dream for 200 thousand dollars of other peoples' money.

Hell, I don't like my most recent realization that I have traded 5 years of my life, my sanity, and my most cherished dream for a shot at a dumb ass piece of paper and crushing debt. I can empathize with what Josh has went through, even if it is no where near the severity of his situation, which is why I'm so quick to forgive an understand. I didn't drop hundreds of dollars on a kickstarter though, so.

johnnyr wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Why in the world didn't you just stop trying to reinvent the wheel with your own engine, and just use a commercially available one? You're probably the most talented programmer I've ever seen, and you could have very easily modified an engine to suit your needs.

I'll echo the sentiments here that your health is more important than any stupid game, but I think people are being a little *too* understanding. At some point you needed to have re-evaluated this process. You didn't and now here we are.

Too understanding? When a man bares his soul to you, you don't condemn him. There were things Josh could have done better, but there were also things he improved on over the course of LT's development. He grew as a human being, and it took great strength of character for him to return to us and admit his faults and shortcomings directly, rather than, say, leaving a hasty email to Talvieno to break the news or to just disappear entirely.

He could've run away, and left us wondering, but he didn't. He was honest. To beat him down now won't do anything but drive him away from this community. Some of us might be variously disappointed or frustrated, but Josh doesn't deserve to be attacked by dogs or picked apart by vultures. Limit Theory may never come to be, but we shouldn't direct our feelings about its death toward Josh as a weapon.

I hope to see him heal and begin to make other things; perhaps on his own, perhaps at another company. I hope you would too.

Having suffered from mental issues in the past it's a horrible thing, genuinely wouldn't wish it on anyone. I think it's a real shame LT hasn't been completed, it was in it's soul a beautiful thing. But you know something the most important thing here is Josh's health and wellbeing. I'm not saying the failure of the ks is brilliant but for the love of all that is good it is what it is. Josh if you need to talk to anyone DM me, no pressure, no judgement just a friend who is willing to listen and maybe that will help.

johnnyr wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Why in the world didn't you just stop trying to reinvent the wheel with your own engine, and just use a commercially available one? You're probably the most talented programmer I've ever seen, and you could have very easily modified an engine to suit your needs.

I'll echo the sentiments here that your health is more important than any stupid game, but I think people are being a little *too* understanding. At some point you needed to have re-evaluated this process. You didn't and now here we are.

Spoken like a man with zero understanding, knowledge, or experience of programming. And not a little heartless, too.

a) Josh did look at commercially available engines, and determined after careful analysis that none of them would do what he needed. Did you miss that bit? He also re-evaluated the process and his approach, many times over. Did you miss those bits too?

b) How can one be *too* understanding?? And too understanding of what, exactly? Of the fact that someone tried exceptionally hard - certainly above and beyond the call of duty - and many different ways to make something he badly wanted, but couldn't find a way to do it? Or of the fact that as a human being, Josh is doing the hardest thing one can possibly do, and say publicly that he couldn't do this?

Hey Josh, really enjoyed reading your posts for a few years now; I'm sad it's come to this and I hope you'll be OK. God bless.

You did your best. That's all anyone can do. I'm quite frankly amazed you were able to do so much. I'd be willing to bet that we can build something out of the source code although I'm not sure what. It may not be what you envisioned, but it's still something. I'm sad that I'll never get to play it. I doubt this will be the last we hear of you. In fact, I will be disappointed if it is.

Ok, you feel like you've gone as far as you can go. How about hiring developers with a guarantee of say 30% of all future profits. You could delegate sections of the code to individuals who could work full or part time with a guarantee of future profits.

There are people out there who would work for free if you release the code. Why not spread they work around for a piece of the future profits?

Quitting may make things easier for you, but figuring out a way to actually complete this project is the best way to finish it. It may be too much for one person to do, but there are allot of people out there who would love to help see this through. Don't give up just yet.

TheoryOfLimitations wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:43 pm

Ok, you feel like you've gone as far as you can go. How about hiring developers with a guarantee of say 30% of all future profits. You could delegate sections of the code to individuals who could work full or part time with a guarantee of future profits.

There are people out there who would work for free if you release the code. Why not spread they work around for a piece of the future profits?

Quitting may make things easier for you, but figuring out a way to actually complete this project is the best way to finish it. It may be too much for one person to do, but there are allot of people out there who would love to help see this through. Don't give up just yet.

I don't think Josh needs to go into debt on people's borrowed time. He's assumed enough risk. Promising money what may never come would probably ring pretty hollow after a game that never came.

It's not a way to get proper talent, either. People need to eat.

TheoryOfLimitations wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:43 pm

Ok, you feel like you've gone as far as you can go. How about hiring developers with a guarantee of say 30% of all future profits. You could delegate sections of the code to individuals who could work full or part time with a guarantee of future profits.

There are people out there who would work for free if you release the code. Why not spread they work around for a piece of the future profits?

Quitting may make things easier for you, but figuring out a way to actually complete this project is the best way to finish it. It may be too much for one person to do, but there are allot of people out there who would love to help see this through. Don't give up just yet.

While I agree in essence, developers aren't going to put in sweat and tears for promise of potential future money, and if they are I doubt they'll be of a calibre to finish LT.

I personally disagree with the overall sentiment of this thread. Josh as a person and Josh as a developer are entirely separate entities. While I empathise with him on a personal level, that same empathy is why I condemn his actions as a developer.

I like you Josh. I wish you the best in future and I still even hold a little hope that someday when your professional identity is better at management, you'll finish LT with a sound mind.

I'm sorry it is ending like this and I truly do hope that you go on to create beautiful things.

Would be interesting to have list of elements that work, that work for the most part, that where unfinished, and wich had no implementation yet.
It has been always a bit vague of what state the game (or the engine at least) is in.

For its usability for a third party, its important to know what parts of the tech could be reused in another gameproject.
And wich parts where too specific to be used outside of that game idea.

JoshParnell wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:57 am

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jo ... ts/2270873

I don't know what more to say. Today is the most painful day of my life, and I simply hope that a handful of you will find it in your heart to forgive me. I have given all that I can, and it still nowhere near enough

Hey sorry for your heavy heart. Wish I could travel back in time and help you with knowledge from the future.


If and when the source code is ready, I'll try to help where I can but it may just be documentation as I'm not very qualified to work on a large multi-language project.

Damocles wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:49 am

Would be interesting to have list of elements that work, that work for the most part, that where unfinished, and wich had no implementation yet.
It has been always a bit vague of what state the game (or the engine at least) is in.

This so much this

I was missing this from the logs. Just a glimpse what has been done, what needs to be done and not all those teaching lessons which sort of UI implementation is going to be in the game... less dev logs and more manager logs.
And what would be super neat if Josh could also get the last working compilation + code from the last video before the dark days out to us...

To say I am not disappointed that your version of Freelancer 2 will not be a reality, Josh would be dishonest of me. But I've always been concerned about you, my friend, and never wanted to see you get hurt. Time to give your body and mind the rest they deserve.

You will always inhabit a special place in my memories and I thank you for your attempt to deliver your dream which I so much shared. It's not always been an enjoyable experience traveling on the road of Limit Theory development but I'm glad I embarked on the journey.

There's nothing to forgive. Be well Josh Parnell, coding warrior extraordinaire.

There's nothing wrong or shameful to try and fail. It takes bravery to take the leap, and even more bravery to admit to yourself things aren't working out.

Take care, and all my best for your future endeavors.