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Re: The End

Employee 2-4601 wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:30 pm
Perhaps when you release the code, the license should be free for non-commercial use, but contain some kind of provision for commercial use?
It probably should be one or more of the common open source licenses to lower the barrier to re-use.

Selling code is work on its own. No offence, but he'd likely have to put in a lot more work to make his code "commercial or other end user ready". And then it's still work to support the code, else there likely won't be any customers. I don't see a real business model there. Never mind he'd likely have to deal with people who think this game was just a scam funding the tech base for the business he actually had in mind.

IMO it is far more likely in a relative sense [absolute likelihood? no clue] that any possible community forming over any part of the released code would pay Josh to pitch in a bit on developing, say, a derivative UI toolkit or just the engine or whatever. But it'll still be a bunch of dollars on something like Patreon unless it really really hits a home run with some group of people, not a full-time job. And it's also not clear that Josh even wants continued involvement.
Triopalite wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:03 pm
then having spent a great deal of it and knowing he couldn't really produce a game, started to panic
You can do this all without bad faith or low effort. You know how many project managers / engineers / ... got a high level of stress and panic from difficult projects with a lot of uncertainties and a time frame that is "supposed to be done already"? It's really taxing.

Having some well-rested management and more human resources that can be shifted around do wonders for these projects and make them a whole lot less about "weird decisions and poor work tired panicking people" - but even then difficult feats remain difficult feats and many a person won't manage to be entirely cool.
Triopalite wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:03 pm
I obviously, are not as kind as you, or gullible.
I'll point out that you might have a chance to more objectively gauge the level of effort put into the project with the source code and assets as a yard stick.

Dunno if Josh will include past prototypes that were discarded -e.g. the entire git / hg / whatever history, or not. But if he did, the history would surely make it abundantly clear how much it takes to redo big fundamental parts of a game like 3+ times apart from redoing bits and pieces of code and assets as usual.
Last edited by Rad on Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The End

Hey Josh,

I read the kickstarter update at supper with my wife and we both were sad to hear it, this has been my favorite project to keep checking on updates since you first posted it. I remember reading many (not all, too many :P) of your original devlogs and I greatly enjoyed your thoughts on things as you were working on LT. The amount of work you put into this has been exceptional and anyone that doesn't feel your pain at this isn't worth the effort of worrying about.

You'll probably need some time to recover your energy, take it, figure yourself out and get some strength back then you can look at and decide what you want to do, don't rush it, we'll be here.

You've provided more bang for my buck than 90% of the games I've purchased in the last 10 years, thanks for all your hard-work and looking forward to your next endeavors (whatever they may be).
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Re: The End

Thank you Josh for all you've achieved. I regret that I missed the kickstarter. This journey would have been well worth the entry price (dark days not withstanding - no-one should have to go through that).

Reading through everyone else's comments it seems you have options ahead of you. That decision is yours to make.

The only think I would like to ask is that you make available the possibility for people like myself to make a final contribution (you have undoubtedly earned a payday from all of this) - I had always intended to purchase a copy of Limit Theory and I'd like to honour that intent.

What you do with the source code from this point on is entirely up to you (although from a selfish point of view, releasing the source code and staying on as a captain of sorts would probably be the most appealing to me. Here you have a community of very smart people desperate to contribute).

All the best,

Re: The End

It takes a brave man to start a Kickstarter for a simply ludicrous game on his own.
It takes a man with balls of solid adamantium to admit, after thousands of hours of blood, sweat, and tears, that he cannot complete his goal.

Even as a non-backer, I am proud to have been a part of this community for more than two years. Though I never did have the privilege to pledge money to this project at its conception, I've seen it grow to something truly beautiful, and it can only continue to grow once you pass it on.

So, from the bottom of my heart: thank you, Josh. None of this is your fault, and you failed no one. Not one person.
You gave it your all. That's the important part. And as long as people believe that, all of that self-loathing, self-humilitation -- it can go straight to hell.

Take as much time as you need, Josh. You deserve every second of it. And if you ever need someone to talk to, we will be here for you.


Re: The End

Josh, thank you for the journey that you've taken us through. It was truly enlightening to see the daily dev logs and the monthly videos which you consistently put out. In my time here I have become close friends with many of the people in this community. I wish you the best in whatever you look to achieve in the future. I have enjoyed my time here and hope that I will have many more years with the members of this online community. Thank you for bringing us together and giving us a place to share our ideas.

I hope to see you around,


Re: The End

I find it heartening that even with the bitterest end possible, so many of you are finding kindness over indignation.

Josh, do you think Chris Roberts is still looking for Star Citizen developers? If I recall, while you were still running your crowdfunding campaign so many years ago, I believe there was something about him offering you a job.

Somebody's gotta finish a space game this century, y'know. It might not be LT, but it could still have your handprint on it.
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Re: The End

Josh, listen to me. Right now, this moment, this failure seems like all there is. But it isn't. You'll move on, and you'll be happy again. And you'll create beautiful, wonderful things. It will take time, but it will happen. So give yourself a chance. And a hug. Shit happens. This was not a waste. This was a learning process. Jeff Kaplan worked on the blizzard MMO Titan for 7 years before it was ultimately cancelled. And the game that emerged from its ashes, Overwatch, today has more than 40 million players. Everything you've learned in the past 6 years will come in use in the future, sometimes in surprising ways. So take a break, relax, and go do other things with life. You'll be fine. I know it.

Re: The End

Rad wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:51 pm
Selling code is work on its own. No offence, but he'd likely have to put in a lot more work to make his code "commercial or other end user ready". And then it's still work to support the code, else there likely won't be any customers. I don't see a real business model there.
You're reading more into what I said than I intended. Probably my own fault for the way I worded it. I'm not really suggesting that he should work the code into a ready-to-use engine-for-sale -- I agree with all your concerns about that -- but I suspect there are aspects of the code which could be lifted and re-used, and personally I think it would be a shame if that happened for a commercial game, maybe solving significant problems for the developers, without Josh getting anything out of it.

Re: The End

I'm new here, first time post but have been following this game for AGES!

I sent Josh an email this morning offering him a job at my company, and to financially support the production of this game as part of that job.
He obviously has no obligation to accept either! And that's totally OK!

My reasoning for this stems from having built a couple games myself, selling mediocre amounts of them.
But finally being involved in a publisher mess that tore down my games company, and caused me to loose a bunch of investors money.

I know EXACTLY how josh feels, it sucks, it's hurtful, but most of all, it's lonely.
It doesn't have to be! I've built a success since then (4 years ago) and Josh can too.

@Josh please give my email a consider, I'd love to work with you on your game, and your mental health, and your bank account!

Either way, much love and best wishes! You tried and you failed, it's okay! Better that than to just not try at all.


Re: The End


Ive followed this project since the beginning. Having been a kickstarter backer, played the prototype, and come to the forum every now and again to check on progress, it's clear you've given 110% throughout the whole period. Although this wasn't a success, you should still feel proud of the hard work you've put into this, and i honestly don't feel i needed an apology - so it goes without saying that i (and many others) forgive you. Your health and happiness is more important than driving yourself into the ground on a project of this scope.

It's been a rollercoaster of a ride, and i really do wish you the absolute best in your future endeavours. And thankyou for all the hard work you've put in over the years, it's not been for nothing because you have grown and learnt much as a developer, and it's been a pleasure to have been part of that ride.

I actually got a lot of entertainment out of the prototype alone, and i don't regret my decision to back in the slightest.
Here's a couple old videos of mine playing the prototype... I had a blast with it!

Funnily enough that last one ends on a rather fitting note.

Anyways, thanks again Josh, and don't be too hard on yourself with this.


Re: The End

With this kind of community, I doubt that Limit Theory will die anytime soon.
Through 6 years of honing everyone left here is here to stay.
From Joshs great and honorable sacrifice came an inspiring idea, a community like no other, and a solid piece of game engine code the likes of which have never been attempted yet. That will never be forgotten.

As Silverware already said in different words: If Josh has to drop the torch, the community will gladly pick it up and carry it to the finish line. I have been following this for 6 years - I too will refuse to see this come to a premature end. The ride was too enjoyable, the goal too tempting not to strive for. It was well worth the money.

I believe this is not "The End", but the beginning of Limit Theory, the open source, community-developed space game born from the undeniable yearning for "something like Freelancer", but newer, better, bigger. Supported by veterans of the space-game-developer field, people who will put more money behind this as needed, an endless source of well thought-through ideas and more.

The Limit Theory will not be disproved by Josh tapping out - this game, community, idea will now just transcend him and become something greater.

The hype train never brakes.

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