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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#61
Hey Josh!
Although I think you already know it, I will say it anyway. Because... Who knows, right?

Are you in touch with the guy from duangle that develops NOWHERE? I'm not a programmer and don't have a good overview of what he does. But many of those things you wrote seemd familiar to me.
He also builds a huge procedural world with focus on AI (if I recall correctly ). Has a C Core and uses Lua.
https://gist.github.com/paniq/f7abb94e0bd683c9072b
http://blog.duangle.com/?m=1

I think you already know about NOWHERE but if I have learned anything : don't expect someone to know something, even if it sounds obvious, just say it.

As someone already suggested: I imagine a think tank with such a person would be pretty amazing :D
If you guys do this, please do a live stream. XD

I'm happy you are back again. :)
Last edited by MP X10L on Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#64
Silverware wrote: <lots of snips throughout>
But the general LT public need something visual and tangible. And screenshots, from the current running version, show that there is a current running version.

Even if you just show another iteration of a ship from the ship generator, it stills shows people that, yes there is a game, and yes it is progressing and running.
I partially agree; the issue I see with demanding screenshots is two-fold:

1) Josh has been cagey about releasing actual code he's written for public viewing, which I can possibly justify from a proprietary standpoint - at least until his IP is selling as intended.
2) Screenshots that don't show anything meaningfully *new* can have the opposite effect, making people think he's just recycling the same content from years ago and further cementing the impression that no progress is being made. Even with a time-stamp, since it's not particularly difficult to bring up something which had been working before, rotate the camera a bit and then take another (time-stamped) photo when literally nothing has been done except a rotation and a screen capture. Most people are technically savvy enough to realize this.

A possible 3rd issue is that in the same post where Josh spoke of the death of showman-Josh, he wrote a book where he painstakingly articulated every detail of the last two years (not needed) instead of a brief overview of the last several months (badly needed) and plans for the immediate future (a good idea) with *specific and tangible* references to actual progress that was made. Hell, most of the content of the post was a rehash of things we already knew (at least those of us who have kept up with past updates.)

Given his strong difficulties with communication in a context appropriate for community relations, I fear that a strong insistence on "screenies dude!" will result in a Josh-segfault due to the fact that a) screenies related to actual progress aren't available and he will agonize over how to adequately demonstrate actual progress via vision shots, b) he'll feel the need to show off every angle of whatever IS demonstrable, rather than a simple screen cap here and there, and possibly c) he'll put off posting until he feels there is enough visual pizzazz to impress us, which is exactly what he needs to not be worried about.

He doesn't need to impress us, he should be showing us the actual work, not stage lights. We're in this because we wanted to assist with development, we want to be impressed by the final product, but (most of us) understand that what goes on under the hood before it's ready isn't pretty, and overwhelmingly have stated that we're okay with that.

In writing this, I'm aware that I'm now proposing solutions based on anticipated challenges which wouldn't be necessary if Josh was able to communicate in a more normal PR/CR fashion, but the fact is he isn't, and proposing solutions which don't jive with the target's capabilities doesn't seem productive.
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#68
Flatfingers wrote:If Josh releases screenshots, people will complain.

If Josh doesn't release screenshots, people will complain.

Oy. That way lies :ghost: mode.

Josh is capable of seeing the potential risks to engaging with backers and fans. I can't/won't try to speak for others, but I think I'll focus on highlighting the plausibly possible benefits of interacting with us.
Like: Screenshots makes some of us happy. :D
°˖◝(ಠ‸ಠ)◜˖°
Toba - A Development Dump
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#71
I've been following LT for a few years now, and every now and then I re-watch all the dev videos (they're so chill and aesthetic). I can see that it is more than just a game - it is an artwork/masterpiece, with true meaning to Josh, and so I don't believe it should be rushed at all. I'm more than happy to wait as long as it takes to play this game. So Josh, keep up the good work, and don't listen to the haters! (They've probably never made anything meaningful in their lives...)
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#73
NonBritGit wrote:Good ideas @MP X10L, but I get the impression that Josh works in a vacuum.
I got this impression too.
So maybe, @Josh, the next part of the great puzzle is not some piece of tech that solves FPLT but to work together. It is very likely that there are many things you do not notice if you are in a vacuum.
Regarding to: "find the shortest path to LT and follow it"
As in nature, the optimal path is not always the shortest. For a ball it might be shorter to roll right through the mountain ... but it rolls through the valley. Sometimes its just more energy efficient to take the alternate route. ^^
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#74
HolyAvengerOne wrote:Want screenshots? Josh should release screenshots of his code. ;)
That's a great idea!
The Letter Of The Day screenshot!
Image (example - not an actual screenshot of LT code)

MP X10L wrote:As in nature, the optimal path is not always the shortest. For a ball it might be shorter to roll right through the mountain ... but it rolls through the valley. Sometimes its just more energy efficient to take the alternate route. ^^
But once the ball rolls down into the valley it is stuck there.
It's hard to be a ball.
There is no "I" in Tea. That would be gross.
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Re: The State of Limit Theory Development, 2017 Edition!

#75
Glad to see you back, Josh! Cheers to Dinosawer for posting the update on the subreddit.

It's a complicated emotion in the thread, isn't it? I find it easy to agree with those who are frustrated. Also easy to agree with those that are overjoyed to see signs of life again. A bit like ripping off a band-aid.

And serious life it is. I develop professionally, and I'm well aware of that apparent geometric complexity to add new features or address some issue in larger codebases...yet it still blindsides me from time to time. I won't presume to comment on that though, I think it's safe to assume you've given it some thought. :) I'll just offer the encouragement that solutions of greater or lesser efficacy do exist.

But hey, the communications band-aid is ripped off. The real hurt is over, or will at least be reduced to a dull throb. I don't comment much, but I drop in enough to see that most of us are on your side. And (without it sounding like an ultimatum...I rewrote this a few times, couldn't get away from it): simple, regular, no-fireworks communication on some sort of regular basis will go a long way to keep us there. Good news, bad news, or just progress.

Welcome back. :squirrel:

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