Cornflakes_91 wrote:

Juicy wrote:

AbhChallenger wrote:LT will be what X games never could.

Exactly, I see LT as what Rebirth should have been. I don't see the Freelancer connection at all, though.

Single, small ship exploration, occasionally fightibg pirates and doing small scale trading and mining.

The base level of LT feeling like freelancer is a design goal.

But in LT, that is only the early game before it progresses into large scale things whereas Freelancer never progressed past the depth of the first 5 minutes. Unless I've been horribly mislead about what LT is.

Juicy wrote: But in LT, that is only the early game before it progresses into large scale things whereas Freelancer never progressed past the depth of the first 5 minutes. Unless I've been horribly mislead about what LT is.

eh, i dont think that progressing into larger things will be such a mandatory step as you may think.

primary goal: freelancer 2
everything else: build the mechanics that the universe builds itself for that experience.


the big content will be there, of course, but i suspect there will be quite a bit of focus on the small game for the player.

I don't know... I thought the whole fleet/empire/corporation side of the game was just as big of a focus. The structures that support the freelancer style game need just as much, if not more work, to get that freelancer vibe going. I see LT, based on the pitch, stretch goals, etc as a mixture of Homeworld + Massive, Boundless 4X + Freelancer/Elite/Etc. Empire managment=4X. Fleet Managment=Homeworld (Complex). "Small" Scale Ship Mission/Exploration/Combat/Minning= Freelancer/X Series/Elite (I have played none of them, so I have lumped them together due to having similar concepts. Not trying to offend sensibilities).

I think LT would best be described as an onion. It has layers. And each layer is procedurally generated, and has different flavors depending on where you bite it.

Cornflakes_91 wrote:primary goal: freelancer 2
everything else: build the mechanics that the universe builds itself for that experience.

If that turned out to actually be true, then that would make LT more of a letdown than Spore. I've been silently following this game on and off since before the Kickstarter, and I haven't seen any Freelancer vibes at all. LT being procedurally generated automatically makes it nothing like Freelancer, which was a strictly defined game. And there's the persistent universe with NPCs that have goals rather than the smoke and mirrors that Freelancer had, hiding how shallow it was.

Graf wrote:"Small" Scale Ship Mission/Exploration/Combat/Minning= Freelancer/X Series/Elite (I have played none of them, so I have lumped them together due to having similar concepts. Not trying to offend sensibilities).

What you were describing is basically exactly what the X series is all about. Aside from the first one, none of them are at all small scale.

Juicy wrote:

Cornflakes_91 wrote:primary goal: freelancer 2
everything else: build the mechanics that the universe builds itself for that experience.

If that turned out to actually be true, then that would make LT more of a letdown than Spore. I've been silently following this game on and off since before the Kickstarter, and I haven't seen any Freelancer vibes at all. LT being procedurally generated automatically makes it nothing like Freelancer, which was a strictly defined game. And there's the persistent universe with NPCs that have goals rather than the smoke and mirrors that Freelancer had, hiding how shallow it was.

If I were capable of being hurt by words alone I would be hurting badly after reading that, Juicy. Not only have you shown how much you have skipped during your professed following of this game but you've indirectly called Josh a liar. I suggest you do a little research concerning the words of the coding warrior on Freelancer 2 and particularly a promise made by him concerning the subject. The search function is your friend in that research. [/quote]

I suggest replaying Freelancer, not Starlancer.
LT looks and feels quite like Freelancer from the videos.

X stillbirth was a travesty. A misshapen corruption of what a space game should be. Kinda like an orc. Orcs were a black corruption of elves created by the dark lord. I mean seriously, what kind of PC space game doesn't have the ability to bind keys or have a radar?

As far as LT goes, I don't think it's trying to be, or even needs to be, a carbon copy of Freelancer. It just gets some of it's inspiration from Freelancer.

Juicy wrote:

AbhChallenger wrote:LT will be what X games never could.

Exactly, I see LT as what Rebirth should have been. I don't see the Freelancer connection at all, though.

Something funny that people often forget, don't realize or just plain ignore about Freelancer is that what FL ended up being and what FL was supposed to end up being are two wildly different beasts. Freelancer WAS going to be a lot more in depth and dynamic than it actually ended up being. FL was kind of "half" a game in that it was never finished. They pretty much clipped Chris Roberts' wings mid-stride to push something out because "it was taking too long" which funny enough wasn't really that long in the grand scheme of things. Especially not for what he wanted it to be. It really seems like the main gripe you have with Freelancer isn't actually an issue that is the fault of Freelancer so much as it was a fault of the tech and industry at the time. That was that FL was ultimately too static. But it was built from a storytelling perspective and it was meant to be a lot deeper than it ended up being. If you actually look into the game engine you'll find certain little things that weren't taken out that show just where it was going to head and my bet would have been that ship options/choices would have been much deeper. You would have been able to fly bigger ships. Perhaps missions would have been a lot more varied. There could have been a somewhat dynamic economy, perhaps not simulated to the degree of X* but tbh the game would have probably needed another couple years for that to have been possible.

LT however carries its roots in FL. So when people say that LT is what FL could/should have been. That is what they mean. If you view the early videos you will find that Josh references freelancer a few times. Not X*. Because the X series is not where he was going with LT. FL is where he was going with it. But much MUCH deeper while also being much broader. Yes if Josh pulls it off the way he wants I can see LT knocking both Freelancer and the X series out of the park. It could even stand up against Star Citizen, E:D and NMS. Which is saying something given how heavily backed those games are and how much experience and effort has gone into them compared to LT.

SC/ED/NMS are all being done by teams of significantly large size. LT is being done by one person. Yet I can easily see LT rivaling all three of those games if Josh manages to pull it off.

TGS, if Josh pulls it off we will be living in the Golden Age of space games. I hope the Golden Days will be here soon, but only as soon as needed for a complete product. The last thing I want is for Josh to feel that he needs to release an incomplete copy of Limit Theory to the world.

Sounds a bit like a burn-down list from Agile/Scrum, organized for big-picture understanding. Whatever works!

The really exciting day will come when you realize that you have started taking down post-it notes faster than you are adding new ones....

I concur and assuming that Josh needs more tech here's a great free tool for organising things and helping him self manage the project (used in anger on industrial strength projects by myself):

Trello

His post-its become the backlog and each 'sprint' will help focus the attention on the bits needed.

I've been a developer for more than 30 years and I can honestly say that I've never taken on board anything thing 'faddy' (anyone rmeember RAD?) and have always cut my own furrow, however Agile is sufficiently flexible to really help the developer (more so in a team but if you are the PM + Architect + Developer then there is some mileage in it).

TGS wrote:It could even stand up against Star Citizen, E:D and NMS.

I would certainly hope so. All it needs to do to beat E:D is actually be finished when it's released. All it needs to do to beat Star Citizen is to actually be released at all. All it needs to do to beat NMS is to actually be a video game rather than a walking simulator that does poorly what has already been done much better multiple times. The space sim 'revival' is a complete joke, and LT is really the only hope.

Juicy wrote:All it needs to do to beat NMS is to actually be a video game rather than a walking simulator that does poorly what has already been done much better multiple times.

I've yet to see a game where i can seamlessly fly from space to ground and leave my craft there.
On full sized planets.
in fps worthy resolution

Shores of Hazeron immediately comes to mind as something that already does everything NMS tries to do while actually having gameplay. There's Rodina and Starmade, which are pretty recent, and Noctis, which came out in 2000. Battlecruiser also let you land on planets and explore in a buggy, which was in the late 90s. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

NMS is just a scam that's only popular because it was marketed towards the console market, which is full people who aren't aware games like that already exist.

Juicy wrote:Shores of Hazeron, Rodina, Starmade, Noctis, Battlecruiser

I have to say, your choice of games is somewhat... unconventional if these are what you're holding up as "proof" of NMS being "a scam"...

NMS sky is a lot more than that, huge procedural planets with procedural life with procedural sounds that are based on that life's anatomy. You will be able to do almost anything in an open world similar to how LT will work. And then theres the mystery of whatever is in the center of the universe/galaxy. I think it will be a great game.