The End of the Dark Days.

Read and discuss the latest big updates in the development process.

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Zebulon Pi » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:02 pm

novarest wrote:Guys, this is not how any of this works.

Josh is a genius and has very high intelligence. But now he has lost his brain-shield. Call it burn-out, depression, whatever. That genius/insanity lie close together is not just a saying. Anyway this has happened thousands of times before and will happen again thousands of times. It's just the way of human reality and tragedy on this planet. Sure there are a bunch of psychologists and drug pettlers who claim to have figured it all out, but I think that's all bullshit. We are quite powerless in these things of the mind.

Every time Josh will try to come back, he will see a mean posting and it will hit his brain like a laser beam, or he will look at some old code line of his and the fact that he is no longer "into it" will hit his brain like a missile. And the constant pressure to "come back" will just be as stressful and exhausting as being here.

There are no easy solutions now.

He can try to take the hits and power through but it will probably fail since an invisible magnetic force will push him away from the forums and the development again and again. The effortlessness is gone. They joy of development is gone. The gravity has shifted, the resting point is no longer in the game. There is no resting point anymore, just repulsive forces away from here. Maybe someday a new resting/gravity point will form somewhere else for him (job/wife/kids). Or magically it will be this game again, though this can take years or may never happen.

He can give the project away to a successor or sell it. This is as painful as trying to power through or even more, since it is "giving his baby away" and abandoning everything that could have been, irreversible. Something will life on. It might be in his spirit or it might be an abomination and others will make money with it. Which would be horrible. So this might also be a bad solution.

I couldn't care less about the 187k. Would anybody take this money to have his life destroyed/altered in that way? No, it's not worth this. It's not worth any amount of money.

But I don't want to be just doom and gloom. While I want to make it clearer that these is little hope for the game, there is hope for the human. Life goes on. He can spend a few years watching TV shows. Watch human history go on. And slowly find a way back. Or he will find the miracle drug that does it. Any amount of good things can still happen and probability says they will just by chance. I mean there are ~70 years to go so. :thumbup:

I think the best thing we can to is lay the game to rest. Disarm it. Abandon all expectations. Find peace. This was all out of the control of anyone. In a way inevitable.


Given, by your own words above, that we are all "quite powerless in these things of the mind", why on earth do you think you can tell what's going on in Josh's?

You can't. No one can. So why not just wish him well in recovery, instead of telling him he's doomed to failure? Honestly, if someone actually took your post to heart, they'd give up any ambition they ever had.
User avatar
Zebulon Pi
Ensign
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:31 pm

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Swidhelm » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:57 pm

Impossible not to feel bad being away so long, I can imagine. But I think the core of the community here, and those like me that have been following the progress of this game for a long time now, would rather you not kill yourself for the game. Sometimes life has a way of reining you in, and make you take a good hard look at yourself. Sometimes that means darkness. I know all too well what that is like. Oh, how I know. I'm ever so slowly ebbing out of a darkness myself. My creativity is slowly--too slowly--returning.

If you need time for yourself, take time for yourself. Ultimately your well being must come first. We will all be here, offering support, so don't feel bad about needing to heal.

Cheers mate,
Swidhelm
Recruit
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Talvieno » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:01 pm

Welcome to the forums, Swidhelm!!! :wave:

To everybody else:
Image
User avatar
Talvieno
Community Manager
 
Posts: 7689
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:50 pm
Location: North GA, USA

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Idunno » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:33 pm

Talvieno wrote:Welcome to the forums, Swidhelm!!! :wave:

To everybody else:
Image

Does anyone have any idea on how to make a free range roomba farm? :think:
Image
The results of logic, of natural progression? Boring! An expected result? Dull! An obvious next step? Pfui! Where is the fun in that? A dream may soothe, but our nightmares make us run!
User avatar
Idunno
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 2273
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:47 pm

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Talvieno » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:03 pm

Nope, but that's seriously off-topic.

Image
User avatar
Talvieno
Community Manager
 
Posts: 7689
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:50 pm
Location: North GA, USA

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Sidrat » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:34 pm

You know you're on the road to recovery when you can face the demons and those that you feel (rightly or wrongly) you let down.

While most regulars could sense something not quite the same, it is all about your real life support network and being able to ask for help.

I'm glad you got it Josh and that you're on the road again.

The game, any game, not just limit theory - will still be there for you. You might want to play a few sessions before delving in to any code work but that's just because those videos looked so damn good. In the meantime - stay healthy and wise, hug your family every day and punch your friends in the face (also a great stress reliever too).

Enjoy the weather and the meds, but of course not too much.
Life is about memories, the more the better.
User avatar
Sidrat
Ensign
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:12 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby echofire » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:30 am

I know I'm a bit late in saying this - but - Welcome back Josh! Take what time you need for yourself. Healing is the most important thing. Is there anything we as members of the community can do to help so as not to put you under so much pressure?
echofire
Recruit
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:23 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Blaxpear » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:16 am

Im so relieved to hear this game continues to develop! Welcome back! :)
User avatar
Blaxpear
Recruit
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:09 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby kaeroku » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:41 pm

Talvieno wrote:there's no need to complain after just eleven days.


So what about 29 days? Yeah, I know guys, everyone here is going to hate on me for calling a spade a spade. Because we all - and yes, I include myself - wish for Josh's well-being. But what everyone misses is that it's inappropriate to conflate two issues: that is, Josh's well-being and the well-being of our pledges. After all, this is not a Josh support group - much as some of us make it out to be.

This is a site dedicated to the followers of an idea, the idea being limit theory. And, this is a forum for the participants in a business venture to discuss their investment - of both time, and money - in the business venture and what is coming of it.

What is appropriate? To have respect for fellow human beings, surely. And a big part of respect is holding each other accountable for their portion of the agreement. In this case, the agreement is we pre-order a game in development, and in exchange, that game is produced over a certain timeframe, updates are provided as proof-of-progress, and the game is delivered.

At this point, every single backer has held up their end; we've all paid the money we promised, and Josh has not only not delivered, but has failed to update, failed to show progress, and failed to deliver on any of the time goals he's made.

I understand the objections which state that his history of updating and progressing lends him credibility, which should offset some of the troubles he's having now, and I agree. So I ask again: what is appropriate? To me, this is no longer a game in development. This is a game which has fallen off because the developer has entered a life crisis. My heart goes out to the guy - really, it does - but at the end of the day, he still has his end of the obligation to meet. I don't care how he does it, whether it means hiring others to take over his portion, selling the IP, or just grinning and bearing it, slogging through and getting it done. Ultimately, he needs to manage his time and deal with his issues, but it is not our job - not mine, and not yours - to see to it he takes care of himself appropriately. It is our job to provide our end of the agreement, and it is Josh's job to provide his.

Past successes and progress aside, Josh continues to make claims and fail to uphold them. "I will road to beta" was one claim. "I am back and working towards making progress on the game again now guys" was another claim. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. Point is, he keeps making empty statements. It's reasonable for confidence to be lost. And while I said before I'd give him another chance, he's not making good on it.

I don't really care if all of you shit on me for saying this, because I realize there's a lot of emotional people who can relate to his issues out here, but Josh - you need to work yourself out and get back to the job you promised to do. No more happy-sappy forum hugs for you, that's not helping anything. You've had months and months to work this out. Get back to the job we already paid you to do.

This isn't right, and it isn't responsible, and continuing to make empty promises will only carry you for so long among those who are committed to "believing in you" against all evidence suggesting that you are no longer a safe bet. My heart goes out to you for your problems, but your problems are not my problems. Resolve them, and do so in a timely fashion. You're long past the point where we can reasonably be expected to offer you any sort of consideration for personal issues.
kaeroku
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:02 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Lum » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:54 pm

Oh man, the next blablah... long time no see :roll:
User avatar
Lum
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 3116
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:10 pm
Location: Potsdam (Germany)

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby BFett » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:13 pm

I guess there is a question that needs to be answered. What is Josh required to do to fulfill his side of the Kickstarter?

Josh delivered daily updates on Limit Theory from December 23, 2012 up to January 9, 2015 when he decided to change to the weekly Road to Beta format which started on January 14 and ended on January 23, 2015. Throughout this time Josh also had provided monthly video updates. Then the stress over took Josh and halted the majority of development and communication from Josh until May 31, 2015 when Josh announced what had happened to him. It's now the beginning of August and people are asking for Josh to push out Limit Theory.

Plain and simple I believe that LT is still incomplete. If Josh is making as much progress as he did before his May 31st update, he still has a few months to go before LT has the base features promised in the Kickstarter. If development is occurring at a slower, healthier pace, then it's possible that development may be pushed out into early 2016.

What is required by the Kickstarter? What evidence of development are the backers obligated to receive? Keeping in mind that the backers may not see the release of Limit Theory until early 2016.
User avatar
BFett
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:44 pm
Location: A galaxy far far away

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Thunderer » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:42 am

I have been there. So let me tell you. Good to have you back (and so soon) and please try to remember that no amount of money or anything else is more precious than your own well being.
Thunderer
Recruit
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:54 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Safe-r » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:20 am

BFett wrote:I guess there is a question that needs to be answered. What is Josh required to do to fulfill his side of the Kickstarter? [...] What is required by the Kickstarter? What evidence of development are the backers obligated to receive? Keeping in mind that the backers may not see the release of Limit Theory until early 2016.

Here is an interesting note in the FAQ:
If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers. For more information, see Section 4 of our Terms of Use.


Secion 4, Terms of Use:
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.

This is an excerption that's releveant to the lack of updates:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
User avatar
Safe-r
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:47 am

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Dinosawer » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:19 am

I would reread that if I were you. :P
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards[...] A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;

He's only supposed to give an update if he decides he's not gonna be able to finish LT, and last thing we heard this was definitely not the case.
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
The LT IRC / Alternate link || The REKT Wiki || PUDDING
Image
User avatar
Dinosawer
Admiral
 
Posts: 5445
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:08 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: The End of the Dark Days.

Postby Safe-r » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:45 am

That's interesting. Well, at least there is Stellaris to look up to, until some official update on Limit Theory sees the light of day.
User avatar
Safe-r
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:47 am

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blairvoyach and 7 guests