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Re: Development Update #21

#166
It's a completely different universe - we see completely different effects than we see in ours. I think we're justified in using completely different laws. You guys aren't seriously turning down an idea just because "There's nothing like that in the real world", are you? :P I know you have a better imagination than that.
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Re: Development Update #21

#167
Talvieno wrote:I know you have a better imagination than that.
It's one of the thing I don't understand about some of the members here, Talvieno. Why the need for explanations of every part of the LT universe? Some of which is just pure hokum. I could understand this if LT was meant to be a scientific simulation but it's just a game. Am I missing something about the needs of these members? :?
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Re: Development Update #21

#168
It's not lack of imagination, it's overeducation :lol:
I know friction is fluid particles knocking against an object, which only happens when said object is moving.
Victor Tombs wrote:
Talvieno wrote:I know you have a better imagination than that.
It's one of the thing I don't understand about some of the members here, Talvieno. Why the need for explanations of every part of the LT universe? Some of which is just pure hokum. I could understand this if LT was meant to be a scientific simulation but it's just a game. Am I missing something about the needs of these members? :?
I don't need an explanation (I'm happy playing a mage in rpgs after all), Victor, but I enjoy trying to invent one. I'm studying science because I think it's fun to try and find an explanation for how the universe works, and I find it fun to apply that to the lt universe too. The fact that it doesn't make all that much sense is just an extra challenge. :ghost:

Edit: you could see it as a scientist's way of writing fan fiction ;)
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: Development Update #21

#170
Victor Tombs wrote:
Talvieno wrote:I know you have a better imagination than that.
It's one of the thing I don't understand about some of the members here, Talvieno. Why the need for explanations of every part of the LT universe? Some of which is just pure hokum. I could understand this if LT was meant to be a scientific simulation but it's just a game. Am I missing something about the needs of these members? :?

I don't need an explanation, when I play the game I probably won't even think about how 'strange' the physics are, I will just have fun, explore and conquer my enemies.
However, I find it fun to think about explanations while we're waiting for the game, it's a challenge, it also makes me learn more about our own universe because I look up details about our own physics before I think about an explanation for lt.

Tl;Dr: I make explanations because I find it fun, challenging and educational. But certainly don't need them.
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Re: Development Update #21

#171
Victor Tombs wrote:
Talvieno wrote:I know you have a better imagination than that.
It's one of the thing I don't understand about some of the members here, Talvieno. Why the need for explanations of every part of the LT universe? Some of which is just pure hokum. I could understand this if LT was meant to be a scientific simulation but it's just a game. Am I missing something about the needs of these members? :?
Missed this.

They pretty much answered it anyway. :P I do think, though, that they're being a little overly strict in their imaginings. "But that's not a real force!" No, but it doesn't mean it couldn't be a force in a different universe. "But it doesn't work that way in real life!" No, different universe, not real life. One might similarly look at fiction and say "That's not a true story!" Of course it isn't - that's the point of fiction. :D

Dinosawer, Cha0zz? Find me a way my system doesn't work in-universe, using the laws I invented. Then I will gladly accept that my laws are flawed, and we can go about revising them. :)
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Re: Development Update #21

#173
Talvieno wrote: ...I do think, though, that they're being a little overly strict in their imaginings. "But that's not a real force!" No, but it doesn't mean it couldn't be a force in a different universe. "But it doesn't work that way in real life!" No, different universe, not real life. One might similarly look at fiction and say "That's not a true story!" Of course it isn't - that's the point of fiction. :D

Dinosawer, Cha0zz? Find me a way my system doesn't work in-universe, using the laws I invented. Then I will gladly accept that my laws are flawed, and we can go about revising them. :)
I'm not against new forces, I just want to know where they come from too ;)

However...why are asteroids locked in place by the aether but large ships not?
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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Re: Development Update #21

#174
Asteroids have nothing to move them. :P I imagine that is a way my idea is flawed, yes. If we were to do it correctly, placing your battleship's bow against an asteroid and pushing ought to slowly move the asteroid, as it would have something of a fairly decent size propelling it (at least, using the laws I laid out)... it obviously can't work that way, but I think Josh would let us do that if his engine could handle it. It's not really a design choice, more an engine limitation... I'll admit that's hardly a good argument for it, however.
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Re: Development Update #21

#176
Dinosawer wrote: Truth be told, I don't think my idea works for asteroid fields either. :ghost:
I'm pretty sure it doesn't :P
squire Talvieno wrote:The amount of force required to cause one particle to bind to another is low relative to our universe, and happens much more easily.
Ok, I do not want to collide with astroids, or anything else in that universe unless I want to be stuck to it :P
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Re: Development Update #21

#179
Scytale wrote:Flat, if the mood strikes you would you convince me of no gravity in LT? I still think an aether with non-Newtonian viscosity could allow for masses like planets to remain essentially stationary.

I recall Dinosawer mentioning gravity existing but only as a short-range force...
The main virtue of the idea of a "pushing aether" is that it's one principle that accounts for multiple effects. It explains why large masses coalesce (over long spans of time); it explains why large masses are (apparently) stationary, and it explains why small masses like ships experience a drag force. Of course it's not a perfect explanation, but a game isn't a perfect simulation.

Having said that, though, I really like the idea of gravity operating as a relatively short-range force. Although that adds a principle, which complicates things -- now there are aether and gravity -- it removes the need for the aether to have a "pushing" capability.

So is it better to have one principle that gets extended in slightly unbelievable ways to explain the nature of normal space? Or is it better to have multiple principles that feel closer to our own reality but complicate explanations for visible physical behaviors?

Another question about gravity in LT as a relatively short-range effect: what if the ranges of gravity and electromagnetism were swapped in the LTverse compared to our own? :shock:
Victor Tombs wrote:It's one of the thing I don't understand about some of the members here, Talvieno. Why the need for explanations of every part of the LT universe? Some of which is just pure hokum. I could understand this if LT was meant to be a scientific simulation but it's just a game. Am I missing something about the needs of these members? :?
And to put another gloss on this besides "it's just fun," there's also a practical reason for it.

Developing an internal logic to an invented world makes it easier to imagine new features that "fit" that world. And when more of the features of a world work together, the "willing suspension of disbelief" becomes easier, and experiencing that world becomes much more satisfying intellectually and emotionally.

I know that watching people trying to find an internal logic might appear to be nothing more than indulging an odd compulsion for things to make sense. But I think there's more to that than just a blind snuffling for Structure: understanding the rules by which things work enables the construction of more and better things.
Last edited by Flatfingers on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Development Update #21

#180
Flatfingers wrote:....
Another question about gravity in LT as a relatively short-range effect: what if the ranges of gravity and electromagnetism were swapped in the LTverse compared to our own? :shock:
Well... [this is your last chance to run away]
They have the same range. Both potentials are 1/r. (A short range potential is e^(-r)/r )
The reason we don't notice electromagnetic forces is the fact that there are 2 opposite charges that stick together so there is no net charge on larger scales, whereas there is only positive mass.
The electromagnetic force is way stronger than gravity, actually.
If you would swap the strengths, my educated guess would be that stable atoms wouldn't form anymore, everything would be plasma and the universe would be full of black holes. Not very nice :ghost:
Warning: do not ask about physics unless you really want to know about physics.
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