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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#61
Philip Coutts wrote:As much as the delay doesn't really bother me there does need to be a firm line in the sand date. The issue here is that this could drift and drift and drift without ever reaching an end point. The latest Dev video had an example. First it was no modding, then maybe a little and now it's going to feature loads of modding. This all takes time and adds to the development time. I'm a big fan of LT and Josh but he needs to be careful in my opinion. He needs to put a firm "This is in the game" and "This is not in the game" brief down and stick to it. My concern is that it was modding this month, next month it could be "Well I'll just add in planetary landings" or "I'll just do cockpits after all". I don't mean to be flippant or negative but I worry that without a clear end date this could slip further.
I see your point BUT modding for example was just a side effect from josh building systems that he can create more content more easily.
As every system that makes it easy,for the developer to add content also makes it easy for modders.

It is as with kerbal space program.
They made a system that makes it super easy to add new parts and made their own work much easier while doing so.

i have the opinion that if you cant mod your game with notepad you have done something wrong in your development, or at least you have made things much harder for you than needed

i dont think that adding planetary flight would come as intended primary feature before LT V1.0.
As there is no side effect that makes something else easier from where LT is right now.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#62
Zanteogo wrote:
How about taking at least one day a week off? It would only reduce your productivity by 14% (which means 1 or 2 more MOnths of development time at max, most likely much less as you wont be that exhausted :)

I am talking from own expierience that a bad day/night cicle and a bad work/life balance can drag you down all the way to the bottom - and worst you often dont notice the declien until you crashed on the floor.
THIS THIS THIS!

Taking a day off probably improves productivity. It almost certainly improves the quality of work. In fact this is a great time of year to take a vacation. Take a freakin week off. Go camping or something, stay away from the computer. Frack that don't take a computer with you. No coding, no email reading, stay away from the forums. I get that you love what you're doing and your dedication is admirable but you should get away from it occasionally. We don't want you burning out. If I could order you to take some time off, I would.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#63
Cornflakes_91 wrote:i dont think that adding planetary flight would come as intended primary feature before LT V1.0.
As there is no side effect that makes something else easier from where LT is right now.
I agree with you, Cornflakes, but it's that word "intended" that is always a showstopper with Mr Parnell. Or, to be more precise, "not intended". :P

There is so much extra in LT that was not intended but still found its way into the game as a natural result of building the original vision. The usual explanation is something like, I was doing this and this (essential parts of the game) and it occurred to me that this (something unintended from his subconscious) would be a neat addition. (it's usually something relatively minor) So I added it. ( "it" required little effort and time but makes a world of difference to the game).

Because he works in this manner even unexpected additions are not out of the question. If he sees an easy and relatively none time consuming way of adding a feature, I hope he will go ahead and add it because I want to see it. :D

I've never believed the timescales that Josh laid down would be adhered to, and I know very little about games development, but it gave him something to aim for. We all know how painful these revisions concerning the release date are for Josh but I, for one, don't want him to work like an averagely skilled code monkey who produces the same old lacklustre results on a regular basis. :angel:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#64
At the risk of sounding redundant, I'm perfectly happy with LT ending up as my personal 2015 game of the year instead of pushing to an earlier date and being just a nine or ten out of ten. Yes, it can suck to miss a self-imposed deadline, but my excitement for a properly beta'd and polished version outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to wait for a little while longer.

On an unrelated note, the third-person camera was looking and feeling really good, even if you didn't draw attention to it in the video.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#65
I'm actually pleased he's shifting the release date. Sure, it's that much longer before it comes out, but it means the finished product will be that much better. Limit Theory is going to be a landmark game, once it gets some serious press. It's a work of art, and as Mr. Parnell's debut piece of work, it'll really put his name on the map. On the down side, everyone will always expect this level of excellence from him, but I think he can live up to it. I'd love for him to take a week off to unwind too - it would probably increase his productivity. My suggestion would be to leave the laptop at home, but take a notebook with him. You come up with all sorts of brilliant ideas when you pull away from the computer for a while, and he'd want to be able to write them down. The first week back would be an explosion of activity and ideas.

Ninja'd.

And yes, the third person camera was beautiful. It looked really smooth. I liked it. :) The fact that you didn't get any negative feedback at all on it proves just how great it is.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#66
Jain wrote:At the risk of sounding redundant, I'm perfectly happy with LT ending up as my personal 2015 game of the year instead of pushing to an earlier date and being just a nine or ten out of ten. Yes, it can suck to miss a self-imposed deadline, but my excitement for a properly beta'd and polished version outweighs the minor inconvenience of having to wait for a little while longer.

On an unrelated note, the third-person camera was looking and feeling really good, even if you didn't draw attention to it in the video.
Posts like yours, Jain, will never sound redundant. I'm not a fanboy and have frequently voiced my disagreements with the coding maestro but your words are music to my ears. :D

It's strange but Mr Parnell frequently responds better to criticism than praise. I've accused him of being a masochist in the past but occasionally you get to see beyond his erected shield and realize he is nothing like the robot he portrays himself to be. Everyone appreciates praise and encouragement. ;) :angel:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#67
JoshParnell wrote:I know this is the right choice...but it still hurts.
I'll toss in my few thoughts to this thread:

I get a free sneak peek into the developing LT universe reliably every month. :mrgreen:

Almost without fail, daily Dev Logs mingling excitement, general nerdiness, codespeak, humour, grandiose idealism and more! :)

Now how could I be unhappy with Limit Theory's progress, or the happy privilege of chumming with the community that exists as a direct result of the above?


I don't wish upon Josh any roadblocks, derailments or coding droughts, far from it!

But we who wait for LT.. it's not a bad lot as has fallen to us. Not bad at all.
"omg such tech many efficiency WOW" ~ Josh Parnell
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#68
Philip Coutts wrote:As much as the delay doesn't really bother me there does need to be a firm line in the sand date. The issue here is that this could drift and drift and drift without ever reaching an end point. The latest Dev video had an example. First it was no modding, then maybe a little and now it's going to feature loads of modding. This all takes time and adds to the development time. I'm a big fan of LT and Josh but he needs to be careful in my opinion. He needs to put a firm "This is in the game" and "This is not in the game" brief down and stick to it. My concern is that it was modding this month, next month it could be "Well I'll just add in planetary landings" or "I'll just do cockpits after all". I don't mean to be flippant or negative but I worry that without a clear end date this could slip further.
He needs to spend the next few months only doing things that make LT actually playable. This means finishing all the UI, making the AI work, all the basic features working. After the base game is done to the point where it's in theory playable, THEN go back and make a list of the most important things that need to be tweaked. Follow that list and don't wander.

"Well, I was planning on working on the AI today to make it able to trade research, but I got distracted and worked on how the light refracts off asteroids and think I found the math to make it slightly more appealing" <-- Not an exact quote, but not far off either. Stuff like this needs to stop.

Josh has many skills. He has made what looks like a great Alpha limit theory. He needs to focus now and finish what needs to be finished.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#69
Zanteogo wrote:He needs to spend the next few months only doing things that make LT actually playable.
And there we go again. He NEEDS to do this and that without the courtesy of IMO. Personally, I will leave it to Mr Parnell to decide what he NEEDS to do. I'm sure he reads all of your concerns and I'm sure you are more than competent in your own work but unlike you I choose to let Josh decide what he NEEDS to do. I only offer opinions. :angel:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#70
Victor Tombs wrote:
Zanteogo wrote:He needs to spend the next few months only doing things that make LT actually playable.
And there we go again. He NEEDS to do this and that without the courtesy of IMO. Personally, I will leave it to Mr Parnell to decide what he NEEDS to do. I'm sure he reads all of your concerns and I'm sure you are more than competent in your own work but unlike you I choose to let Josh decide what he NEEDS to do. I only offer opinions. :angel:
He can do what ever he pleases. I assumed it was implied.

He has many skills. He is clearly a talented programer. I am sure once LT is released it will be a great game.

I mean no offense to Josh or anyone else.

I may have been too direct to the point in my last post, if anyone took undue offense, sorry.

I strongly suggest that IMHO he needs to focus on getting the game playable first.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#71
Philip Coutts wrote:As much as the delay doesn't really bother me there does need to be a firm line in the sand date. The issue here is that this could drift and drift and drift without ever reaching an end point. The latest Dev video had an example. First it was no modding, then maybe a little and now it's going to feature loads of modding. This all takes time and adds to the development time. I'm a big fan of LT and Josh but he needs to be careful in my opinion. He needs to put a firm "This is in the game" and "This is not in the game" brief down and stick to it. My concern is that it was modding this month, next month it could be "Well I'll just add in planetary landings" or "I'll just do cockpits after all". I don't mean to be flippant or negative but I worry that without a clear end date this could slip further.
I've to agree with this, even if the delay is fine for me too, this could start a very slippery slope.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#73
Regardless of whether or not people are okay with a delay, those who have concerns over it are not wrong to be concerned.

The fact of the matter is that release has now been delayed an entire year from the original prospected date. However, Josh is being incredibly transparent. It's not like we don't know what he's doing. Most games that slip or continue to slip you have no clue what's going on.

It's becoming more and more obvious that Josh didn't realize how big of a monster this was at the onset. However, that does not mean he's not making progress at it. As long as we continue to see progress, I think we'll be fine.


As an edit:
I've always been a fan of releasing the ship creator ahead of time as a completely free download similar to the way Spore released their creature creator. This gives fans something to 'appease' them and also a neat little tool to play with. *IF* something like that was possible, it might sate the crowds, or it might just drive them further into madness of wanting the game to come out. ;)

Double edit:
If the ship creator DID come out, then we could say "If Josh is late on an update, he must choose a community created ship to play the dev video as". ;)
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Early Spring - 1055: Well, I made it to Boatmurdered, and my initial impressions can be set forth in three words: What. The. F*ck.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#74
I've said it before but I'll say it again just to remind everyone - as much as I love my work and I enjoy exploring the possibilities of LT, it is putting a lock on the rest of my life - after 2 years I am starting to get eager to come out of my cave for a bit. So I am not going to be inclined to make choices that push the release date back further. On the contrary, I try to make choices that cut the development time as much as possible. The simple truth is that the original timeline was just not enough time - the original feature set is a bit of a beast, not even considering possible "extra" features. I promised a lot, so I have a lot to deliver :)

That being said, I agree with those who say that there needs to be a stronger focus on playability. Yes :thumbup: It will once again be a focus for this month, hopefully even stronger than in June :)
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ~ Henry Ford
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Early 2015

#75
I agree the transparency earns Josh a lot of good faith. I am sadden by the delay, but I understand. This task is very daunting for one man, but he clearly has the work ethic for it, so I also would not mind if he needs some time off due to the stress of it all. I have been burned a few times by kickstarter, but Josh still holds my confidence and I think if looked at with a clear mind, this delay, although significant, should not shake anyone's confidence either.

I do hope Josh realizes he has a very strong core of backers, who would love to play a beta in any state...

Edit: I was writing this post when Josh posted, if this seems off-timed. Josh: Your work ethic combined with your progress and attitude is truly inspirational.

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