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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#106
Differentiating between factions really depends on what a faction *is*.

At present a lot of people seem to be using the term interchangeably wwith *race*, but I don't think that's how it will end up. Or even if there are other "alien" races in the game.

Contra a lot of sci fi, form really follows function a lot of the time. Cosmetic changes for identification kinda depend on the NPCs having access to something akin to the player's ship designer.
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#107
ThymineC wrote:
Neandertal wrote:
McDuff wrote:I don't think anyone has questioned f=ma.
I know but the point is for a given force, the acceleration will become smaller as the velocity increases. the effect is negligible for slow velocities, but with the speeds LT uses it is no longer the case. Just something to keep in mind.
I don't imagine ships in LT travelling more than a few thousand m.s^-1, in which case relativistic change in mass (and therefore acceleration) will be negligible. Potentially non-existent, depending on the tech involved.
That all depends on the speed of light in LT. :D We can just make it less.
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#108
McDuff wrote:Differentiating between factions really depends on what a faction *is*.

At present a lot of people seem to be using the term interchangeably wwith *race*, but I don't think that's how it will end up. Or even if there are other "alien" races in the game.

Contra a lot of sci fi, form really follows function a lot of the time. Cosmetic changes for identification kinda depend on the NPCs having access to something akin to the player's ship designer.
Race IS a type of faction. There can be factions within a race, and there can be factions which consist of many different races of creature. It just so happens that in many Sci-Fi lore systems factions typically form along racial lines. But that is grounded in reality where factions tend to form along ethnic and cultural lines. Whether Josh chooses to specify race as a trait for characters in LT is inconsequential to this argument though, IMHO.

Form does follow function, but in space faring vessels how does form influence function? We have preconceived notions of how these things should be shaped due to the fact that the only types of "air born" vehicles we have experienced are designed to fit the form required to achieve flight in our very specific set of circumstances (size of the human body, aerodynamics in Earth-like atmosphere, technological limitations, materials available, etc). But by definition a lot of these requirements go out the window when you start talking about space faring vehicles. And different factions that design vehicles based on their own preconceived notions (radically different available materials, different atmospheric conditions on their home planet, different racial requirements for life sustaining environments, etc) might come up with something very different. Now, even if all characters in LT are the same "race", I think it is highly unrealistic to think that different "factions" which are localized in different parts of the universe and have access to very different technologies, resources, and socio-economic circumstances would all design their space ships the same way.

All that said, I want it because it would be fun. FUN. I want it, and I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be in the game. As a matter of fact, procedural generation should thrive in this particular scenario, and I think it would be a disservice to the game to not include it. I would understand if organic ships would be too radically different and couldn't be included (as one example), but as far as geometries and materials go, I think visually unique faction designs are a very realistic and achievable goal.

edit: and I don't follow your point about NPC's needing to have access to a ship designer. Why would you need to simulate an NPC using a GUI which is inherently trying to mimick what the procedural generator is designed to do in the first place? Maybe I'm missing something :think:
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#110
Every ship produced will be the result of procedural generation within a certain set of limiting conditions based upon the various attributes of the ship being designed. Creating a "faction" ship will simply constrain some of those conditions further. I don't see why that would be any harder for the NPC's to do. In theory you're just limiting the number of potential permutations available to the ship generator.
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#111
Well, "limiting the available design options based on faction characteristics" is kind of what I meant.

In a given game of LT there can, potentially, be an unlimited number of factions of any size. Given that, if you want them to have visually distinct designs you need some way of procedurally generating a "design type" for each faction too.
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#112
In a design sense, "procedural aesthetics" is pretty simple: given Set 1 of possible cultural qualities, and Set 2 of possible architectural options, design a mapping between Set 1 and Set 2 that would feel plausible to most players.

That's not purely a science. There's art to optimizing those mappings so that all options get used and they all fit together to yield distinctive visual design systems.

But that's the kind of challenge that makes game design so much fun. :)
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#113
And the trick with a fully procedural system is to design an algorithm that works for any given combination of sets one and two.

I think my first attack vector on such a problem would be to try and introduce an evolutionary component to ship design. While NPC personalities may or may not reproduce, making NPC ships "breed" within their faction might well produce the kinds of results we're looking for here.

Or it might not! Still, possibly a valid experiment...
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#114
Great Update !

This game shows the most impressive game-space i have ever seen. Your new scanner is way better than the old one. Love it. I have three ideas for future development:


1. Graphics: Sometimes the light of the central star is blocked by a little roid far away. If they are more roids in the way, the starlight begins to flicker. Seen at the end of the vid. This is not very realistic. Dont know if you can fix that ?

2. Gameplay: Dont reduce the maximum speed of loaded ships, instead of that reduce the acceleration (and negative acceleration ! ). Reduced topspeed may be an easy way to see if anyone got mass in its cargo, but its not immersive.

3. Gameplay: I dont know if all your LT playing was that fast because its dev status, but for my opinion - we are in space. Ship reaction, firing something... everything goes a bit slower (a bit, not too much). The fast impacts of your drones would be like a heavy bomb, they could blast the smaller roids in pieces. :) Traveling speed seems to be ok.
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#115
Nomad wrote:Don't reduce the maximum speed of loaded ships, instead of that reduce the acceleration (and negative acceleration ! ).
I totally agree.

Loved this update though. Personally I was totally fine with the box ships, but hot damn, these new ships are looking boss. Can't wait to see further progress.
Everything else in the update had me excited from the moment I saw it.

Couple thoughts:
Prospector Drones - I think it would be cool if, rather than firing a bunch of drones at a single surface, if the drones struck the surface and began to scan the object. It might take a few seconds as the symbol about the surface expands until the scan is complete. Once the scan is complete you could then see a holographic overlay of the object (asteroid/whatever) showing the variation of density within the object. So, for example, blobs of semi-translucent light blue on the asteroid overlay would indicate blobs of high ore, while almost completely transparent darker blues would indicate less dense rock. Once the scan was complete, the overall composition of the object would be shown (70% rock, 30% vitrium, for example). It would also be cool if you could develop more advanced prospectors through research. These advanced prospectors might scan quicker, fire further, and perhaps even scan multiple nearby asteroids. You might even develop a starburst like prospector which sends out little prospectors in all directions when it de-clusters, scanning an entire region of space.

Miner Drones - Personally I'm not entirely sold on the current mining mechanic, so heres an idea. Perhaps miner drones (little driller drones) could be sent down to the dense areas of the rock to begin digging in a spot. They wouldn't fire away like the prospectors but instead have to be sent down to a surface from up close. They would extract ore and begin to fill their stockpiles far more slowly than the beam demonstrated, but would not be able to move from the surface. You would then have to return to the Miner drones to collect their stash. They would give you some kind of message to let you know they are A) 100% full, or B) unable to find any more ore in the current location.
This would allow you to move about a cluster of asteroids scanning and planting miners, then sweep back through collecting the deposits.
Further research on Miners would allow them to, on their own, move about a surface as the different locations on said surface are fully exploited.

Further on from this, you could research a form of Miller Craft (for lack of a better title) which would lurk a region of space until nearby miner bots are full, and gather their goods. Once the miller is full, it might let you know. As you further research, the miller might be able to return to the nearest hub to sell the goods for you. You might even be able to research so that the Miller can collect Miners for you, and re-deposit them on other nearby scanned asteroids not yet mined. Finally you might be able to research the ability for your Miller to start sending out Prospectors of its own.
This would allow a sense of growing scale to your operation, but would never allow you to simple go idle, racking up money, because, although a Miller might seek out resources independently, they might be prone to getting lost in bad parts of space (less ore dense), so you would have to continually manage your growing fleet of Millers (Ok, its a terrible name, I know) to make sure they aren't waisting time (and fuel) wandering through nothingness. Millers could even start to cost you money if start moving too far into 'worthless' regions. Perhaps even the ability to bring up statistics relating to productivity of individual Millers, as well as the fleet as a whole, could become part of the meta game.

Defence would also be an important research area as you develop your mining fleet, as big ass Millers with heavy loads, returning to get your payday, would be targets for pirates. Early warning systems for encroaching ships and rudimentary weaponry might be an avenue of research, so that your stockpiles aren't simply going missing.

Just a few ideas, hopefully some of them worth your time. Keep up the good work :)
Post

Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#116
JLeeMcKenzie wrote:
Spoiler:      SHOW
Nomad wrote:Don't reduce the maximum speed of loaded ships, instead of that reduce the acceleration (and negative acceleration ! ).
I totally agree.

Loved this update though. Personally I was totally fine with the box ships, but hot damn, these new ships are looking boss. Can't wait to see further progress.
Everything else in the update had me excited from the moment I saw it.

Couple thoughts:
Prospector Drones - I think it would be cool if, rather than firing a bunch of drones at a single surface, if the drones struck the surface and began to scan the object. It might take a few seconds as the symbol about the surface expands until the scan is complete. Once the scan is complete you could then see a holographic overlay of the object (asteroid/whatever) showing the variation of density within the object. So, for example, blobs of semi-translucent light blue on the asteroid overlay would indicate blobs of high ore, while almost completely transparent darker blues would indicate less dense rock. Once the scan was complete, the overall composition of the object would be shown (70% rock, 30% vitrium, for example). It would also be cool if you could develop more advanced prospectors through research. These advanced prospectors might scan quicker, fire further, and perhaps even scan multiple nearby asteroids. You might even develop a starburst like prospector which sends out little prospectors in all directions when it de-clusters, scanning an entire region of space.

Miner Drones - Personally I'm not entirely sold on the current mining mechanic, so heres an idea. Perhaps miner drones (little driller drones) could be sent down to the dense areas of the rock to begin digging in a spot. They wouldn't fire away like the prospectors but instead have to be sent down to a surface from up close. They would extract ore and begin to fill their stockpiles far more slowly than the beam demonstrated, but would not be able to move from the surface. You would then have to return to the Miner drones to collect their stash. They would give you some kind of message to let you know they are A) 100% full, or B) unable to find any more ore in the current location.
This would allow you to move about a cluster of asteroids scanning and planting miners, then sweep back through collecting the deposits.
Further research on Miners would allow them to, on their own, move about a surface as the different locations on said surface are fully exploited.

Further on from this, you could research a form of Miller Craft (for lack of a better title) which would lurk a region of space until nearby miner bots are full, and gather their goods. Once the miller is full, it might let you know. As you further research, the miller might be able to return to the nearest hub to sell the goods for you. You might even be able to research so that the Miller can collect Miners for you, and re-deposit them on other nearby scanned asteroids not yet mined. Finally you might be able to research the ability for your Miller to start sending out Prospectors of its own.
This would allow a sense of growing scale to your operation, but would never allow you to simple go idle, racking up money, because, although a Miller might seek out resources independently, they might be prone to getting lost in bad parts of space (less ore dense), so you would have to continually manage your growing fleet of Millers (Ok, its a terrible name, I know) to make sure they aren't waisting time (and fuel) wandering through nothingness. Millers could even start to cost you money if start moving too far into 'worthless' regions. Perhaps even the ability to bring up statistics relating to productivity of individual Millers, as well as the fleet as a whole, could become part of the meta game.

Defence would also be an important research area as you develop your mining fleet, as big ass Millers with heavy loads, returning to get your payday, would be targets for pirates. Early warning systems for encroaching ships and rudimentary weaponry might be an avenue of research, so that your stockpiles aren't simply going missing.

Just a few ideas, hopefully some of them worth your time. Keep up the good work :)

to drones: why not both? mining beam and drones.

to the "miller" ships: why should i bother researching special vessels if i could just hire an NPC and order him to mine an area?
i just give him some drones and an area to mine and he works as you described.
he would also be less dumb in doing it
Post

Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#119
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
JLeeMcKenzie wrote:
Spoiler:      SHOW
Nomad wrote:Don't reduce the maximum speed of loaded ships, instead of that reduce the acceleration (and negative acceleration ! ).
I totally agree.

Loved this update though. Personally I was totally fine with the box ships, but hot damn, these new ships are looking boss. Can't wait to see further progress.
Everything else in the update had me excited from the moment I saw it.

Couple thoughts:
Prospector Drones - I think it would be cool if, rather than firing a bunch of drones at a single surface, if the drones struck the surface and began to scan the object. It might take a few seconds as the symbol about the surface expands until the scan is complete. Once the scan is complete you could then see a holographic overlay of the object (asteroid/whatever) showing the variation of density within the object. So, for example, blobs of semi-translucent light blue on the asteroid overlay would indicate blobs of high ore, while almost completely transparent darker blues would indicate less dense rock. Once the scan was complete, the overall composition of the object would be shown (70% rock, 30% vitrium, for example). It would also be cool if you could develop more advanced prospectors through research. These advanced prospectors might scan quicker, fire further, and perhaps even scan multiple nearby asteroids. You might even develop a starburst like prospector which sends out little prospectors in all directions when it de-clusters, scanning an entire region of space.

Miner Drones - Personally I'm not entirely sold on the current mining mechanic, so heres an idea. Perhaps miner drones (little driller drones) could be sent down to the dense areas of the rock to begin digging in a spot. They wouldn't fire away like the prospectors but instead have to be sent down to a surface from up close. They would extract ore and begin to fill their stockpiles far more slowly than the beam demonstrated, but would not be able to move from the surface. You would then have to return to the Miner drones to collect their stash. They would give you some kind of message to let you know they are A) 100% full, or B) unable to find any more ore in the current location.
This would allow you to move about a cluster of asteroids scanning and planting miners, then sweep back through collecting the deposits.
Further research on Miners would allow them to, on their own, move about a surface as the different locations on said surface are fully exploited.

Further on from this, you could research a form of Miller Craft (for lack of a better title) which would lurk a region of space until nearby miner bots are full, and gather their goods. Once the miller is full, it might let you know. As you further research, the miller might be able to return to the nearest hub to sell the goods for you. You might even be able to research so that the Miller can collect Miners for you, and re-deposit them on other nearby scanned asteroids not yet mined. Finally you might be able to research the ability for your Miller to start sending out Prospectors of its own.
This would allow a sense of growing scale to your operation, but would never allow you to simple go idle, racking up money, because, although a Miller might seek out resources independently, they might be prone to getting lost in bad parts of space (less ore dense), so you would have to continually manage your growing fleet of Millers (Ok, its a terrible name, I know) to make sure they aren't waisting time (and fuel) wandering through nothingness. Millers could even start to cost you money if start moving too far into 'worthless' regions. Perhaps even the ability to bring up statistics relating to productivity of individual Millers, as well as the fleet as a whole, could become part of the meta game.

Defence would also be an important research area as you develop your mining fleet, as big ass Millers with heavy loads, returning to get your payday, would be targets for pirates. Early warning systems for encroaching ships and rudimentary weaponry might be an avenue of research, so that your stockpiles aren't simply going missing.

Just a few ideas, hopefully some of them worth your time. Keep up the good work :)

to drones: why not both? mining beam and drones.

to the "miller" ships: why should i bother researching special vessels if i could just hire an NPC and order him to mine an area?
i just give him some drones and an area to mine and he works as you described.
he would also be less dumb in doing it
Costs money to hire an NPC? I dunno if we are having to pay constantly for services or just a one time payment. If it is just a one-time payment, then yeah, NPC might work. But I do like the idea of a ship/drone that collects everything and dumps it off or sells it. Maybe I want a droid army!?
Image "Everyone needs to have their avatar's edited to have afros." -Charley Deallus
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Re: Development Update #14: February 2014

#120
Charley_Deallus wrote:
Costs money to hire an NPC? I dunno if we are having to pay constantly for services or just a one time payment. If it is just a one-time payment, then yeah, NPC might work. But I do like the idea of a ship/drone that collects everything and dumps it off or sells it. Maybe I want a droid army!?
then why should i ever bother with NPC's?

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