Development Update #13: January 2014

Read and discuss the latest big updates in the development process.

Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Mordakai » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:08 pm

Flatfingers wrote:It hasn't been said out loud that I know of, but maybe what people are thinking is that the historical signals are just sort of taking up space. The requests for a "faster" scanner are perceived as a way to decrease the amount of time that historical data values are displayed.


I could be wrong, but my impression was the the 'faster scanner' requests were coming from those misunderstanding the scanner as a spatial representation rather than a historical one.

In other words, they want a faster radar sweep, not realizing they're not using a radar in the first place.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby AbhChallenger » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:40 pm

It is silly considering in the video you can clearly see it spike up the moment an object of interest comes into the scanner view.

Then again I am used to playing games like Dangerous Waters and Silent Hunter. Where passive sensor use is normal and active sensor use is not.

I am sure any kind of "Active Sensor" interface will look quite different.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Flatfingers » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:53 pm

Just_Ice_au to the rescue again. :)

Thanks!
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Rad » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:29 pm

the point of having history is that, once I implement time-varying emissions, you will actually be able to look at the pattern buffer and figure out what type of object you're dealing with!

A mini-game of signature memory with rotations? A lot of people are terrible at that, and even more will not like playing memory (even amongst those that aren't bad at it).

And if a simulated computer is ultimately doing the actual matching on noisy signals, it's more of a "probability of match" bar that is going to be interesting.

Just my 5 cents, though.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Lum » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:06 am

Not minigames for achieving a total unrelated goal. That's so... so... MMO... :lol:
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Katorone » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:31 am

Lum wrote:Not minigames for achieving a total unrelated goal. That's so... so... MMO... :lol:

Actually, I like minigames instead of an arbitrary skill.
I love how they /tried/ to make lockpicking interesting in Oblivion and Skyrim... Let it be something more than a statistic you're leveling.

I get your point though, minigames that don't really contribute to anything but making you spend more time ingame... those are worthless.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Lum » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:15 pm

Katorone wrote:
Lum wrote:Not minigames for achieving a total unrelated goal. That's so... so... MMO... :lol:

Actually, I like minigames instead of an arbitrary skill.
I love how they /tried/ to make lockpicking interesting in Oblivion and Skyrim... Let it be something more than a statistic you're leveling.

I get your point though, minigames that don't really contribute to anything but making you spend more time ingame... those are worthless.


I like them too, but there on that MMO corner of the gaming world! They're great to break the MMO-routine and it serves the purpose just right. But in a game like LT it would feel... errr... counter-immersive or something like that. Only if the minigames are really topic related and have a meaning would be OK for me, but only in that case.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Etsu » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:36 pm

Why a mini-game, if the way it works now emulates its "real" life counterparts? The game presents to you the same information that would have the pilot, and you must use the same skills that the pilot would need in such circumstances. Simple, elegant and functional. Because, well, this is a sim, and I want to have available the same information and options available to my character, nothing more, and nothing less.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby light487 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:57 pm

Etsu wrote:Why a mini-game, if the way it works now emulates its "real" life counterparts?


Well mini-game is just an easy way of saying meta-game for most people. It's a smaller, encapsulated section of the game that usually has you completely involved in the process. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be taken away from the game to play match-3 or tetris or connect pipe style "mini games" to accomplish unrelated tasks. It's just that when you go into certain "modes" of playing, you are effectively playing a "mini" or "meta" game.

So going into some kind of scanning mode, that is different to piloting the ship because you are now controlling the scanning systems rather than the flight-stick etc, could be more easily described as a "scanner mini-game" than having to explain, in great detail, the definition of the mini-game. The term, in its literal form, is just a smaller game within the game... every piece of the larger game is a mini/meta-game.. piloting the ship, docking, combat, trading, scanning, reading news etc all are meta games.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Nomad » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Hi Josh,

i'm thinking about to support your game. The new "radar" looks interesting. Would it be possible to double the beam to the opposite site? Like my very poor paintjob captured from the vid:
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Cornflakes_91 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:29 pm

Nomad wrote:Hi Josh,

i'm thinking about to support your game. The new "radar" looks interesting. Would it be possible to double the beam to the opposite site? Like my very poor paintjob captured from the vid:
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this is only a first iteration of the scanner and will be changing lots of times till release ^^
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Katorone » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:39 pm

Sorry to nitpick, but it's not a radar. You could compare it to a sensitive microphone that picks up background noise in the direction you're pointing. I know there's no sound in space though, this is an analogy.

The circle in the HUD displays signals with different frequencies. In a future version of this graph you'll probably see different shapes/colours that mean different things. The signals from an exhaust could be bright blue, while an iron asteroid could be green.
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby McDuff » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:01 am

I like the scanner, but... I'm kinda with everyone else that the polar plot doesn't really do it for me - polar means space, linear means time. That's pretty much how we're used to interpreting graphs.

I could get used to it in about five minutes of course, it's not that hard. But, frankly, if you're doing both time and frequency variant signals, the polar plot will be way limited. The most intuitive way to display those is with a waterfall plot or a spectrogram. Get a spectrographic analysis of a signal up and the human pattern recognition system means you'll start to recognise even complex patterns really easily.

And, entirely personally, I think spectrograms look way cool as well as being a totally badass way to display plot frequency variation against time.

Example, example.

Of course in theory you could wrap the time axis of a spectrogram around a circle, if you wanted. I'm not totally convinced that would be a better look at it if you wanted people to get into the mode of easily recognising patterns, though.

Although, really really, what you actually want are lots of different ways to present the raw scanner data to the user, that we can pick and choose. Give me a window with a spectrum analyser, a time series waveform and an FFT spectrogram and I'll be happy ;)
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Lum » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:57 am

I'm sure all people who have some kind of problem with the circular scanner output would understand its principle if it'd feature some sort of percentual counter right in the middle of it... Of course, maybe I'm completely wrong :lol:
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Re: Development Update #13: January 2014

Postby Just_Ice_au » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:26 am

Josh already mentioned he was switching to a more traditional linear graph in the dev log for Thursday, February 13th, 2014
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