Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Just_Ice_au » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:32 pm

TanC wrote:
JoshParnell wrote:It's going to be an intense year, no doubt, but I'm excited as ever to get my hands on a whole new year's worth of coding time :D Let's go!! :monkey:

Hey now, we agreed to only six months in dev time in 2014, not the whole year! Get back to working! :twisted:

I kid, take time to work on it until the KS funds are dry and I still have no problems with that. :lol:


AFAIK, stretch goal features are still scheduled for post-release updates.

That, plus bugfixing should keep Josh busy for a little while. ;)
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Katorone » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:12 am

Victor Tombs wrote:
Katorone wrote:
Victor Tombs wrote:Oh, I totally agree with you concerning the KS deadline issue. It's bloody frustrating at times. I don't think anyone could justify leveling such accusations at Josh. He's already asked us to do the arithmetic on the time spent just dealing with the dev logs. :)


I found that very suspicious btw... It's an act of delegation, and that's exactly his breakthrough in AI last month... Could it be ... ?


:think: You may be right in your suspicions Katorone. Delegation is definitely a buzz word around here. Maybe Josh is trying to find a member who can be a replacement for that unreliable software he was using to keep track of his hours. :P

*gets Josh a webcam as a "present"*
If Josh would set that up, everybody can keep an eye on him. :twisted: :ghost:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Victor Tombs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:52 am

Katorone wrote:*gets Josh a webcam as a "present"*
If Josh would set that up, everybody can keep an eye on him. :twisted: :ghost:


I can't see him liking that idea Katorone. Much too intrusive. I don't think he's changed that much in twelve months. If he has, my radar is seriously on the blink and needs new batteries.

But I am sure you weren't serious about such a suggestion. :P
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Katorone » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:44 am

Indeed, being very private myself, I wouldn't dare intrude on somebody elses privacy.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Rabiator » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:20 am

Grumblesaur wrote:Still better than Valve Time and Notch Time.

And infinitely better than the Egosoft methodology :P

But seriously, Josh has taken on some pretty daunting tasks (especially the AI) and seems to do well with handling them. I realize that it is easy for me to talk, having missed the Kickstarter. But even if I had money in the game, I'd vote for "take your time to do it right".
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby CSE » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:03 am

Rabiator wrote: But even if I had money in the game, I'd vote for "take your time to do it right".

I second that, as long as we all agree that doing it right means completing it as well. While I don't really care about the effective release date, I do hope that business Josh has:
  • a list of feature,
  • a time estimate (realistic to conservative) for all of them, potentially dividing into required and nice to have elements (so a minimum time and a desired time),
  • a list of critical things (where the feature is not only a "sweat" implementation problem, but where the solution needs yet to be developed, and therefore where a timeline is very hard to set) to start with them first to decrease uncertainty; I repeat, this is highest priority, so graphic Josh or "known" stuff are only for Sundays...
With this he can make a priority of stuff to do to clarify the unknowns (developing until a solution is found and time effort can be evaluated for full implementation, not until completion). Note that after 1 year of development, these unknown should be relatively seldom, so this first step should be completed quickly.

Finally there is a list of feature without major unknowns that adds up to a development time.
Double it (this includes unexpected stuff, balancing work, impact of a new feature to work with the others seamlessly and so on), add 2 month for beta and feedback.

If what comes out is summer 2014, fine. Otherwise take now the decision to cut features (either reducing the nice to have to the required lower level, or striking completely - sorry guys, no mining/research/whatever in LT1.0) or adapt the timeline.

Follow up then your plan according to the effective work done to get as early as possible the feel if your timeline remain realistic.
As this is definitely NOT a fun thing to do, and as pressure works well, I would suggest making it publicly, with a dedicated mid-month post to update and communicate the status. You would have a development movie every month and a timeline update on the 15th, at least here in the forum.
Yes, this is control. Trust is good, but control is better... :twisted:

I am sorry to always sound negative, but this is actually the toughest part of software development. Programming is comparatively easy... I hope you understand that my aim is to increase the probability of you delivering a finished product in a useful time, not to put pressure for you to be quick.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Commander McLane » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:58 am

The delay is something I've been expecting, and I'm fine with it. I just hope that Mid 2014 is a realistic goal, because I think there is still a lot of development ahead, particularly as far as game play is concerned.

Personally, I'll be happy if the release date will be in 2014, whatever month. :D
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby kindfox » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:33 pm

CSE wrote:As this is definitely NOT a fun thing to do, and as pressure works well, I would suggest making it publicly, with a dedicated mid-month post to update and communicate the status. You would have a development movie every month and a timeline update on the 15th, at least here in the forum.
Yes, this is control. Trust is good, but control is better... :twisted:

I am sorry to always sound negative, but this is actually the toughest part of software development. Programming is comparatively easy... I hope you understand that my aim is to increase the probability of you delivering a finished product in a useful time, not to put pressure for you to be quick.


Josh has done enough to update his plan and progress already to the public. Dev diary everyday, update video every month. I didn't see any Kickstarter project do that much update to its fans.
I really don't think Josh should put more of his time on progress update to anyone.
- write update costs time, which can be put to development features or leisure and rest.
- no matter how detailed the update is, we fans won't have the same picture as Josh. The more info we got, the more concerns we may have. There should be a limit amount of info that are updated to the fans, Josh doesn't need or should update everything to anyone.

For a typical commercial software development, I would say sometimes features has to be compromised to meet deadline. But as a fan, I followup Josh's idea because I agree and love it.
I would want to see Josh's project deliver, 'in a status that it deserves', just like Josh said.

I'm not saying I don't mind at all when the game is released. But seeing the update video show off so much improvements month by month, and dev diary explaining how innovative and dedicated Josh is, I have every reason to believe that Josh will deliver the game in a reasonable date.
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Diegetisor » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:38 am

I personnaly don't really care about the release date as long as the game is released some day.

But, I agree with CSE about the plan and the list of features. Yes we all know how dedicated Josh is. Yes we all know how skill he is. Yet, we have never seen an exhaustive list of features nor a development roadmap.
ingfox is right : we are very fortunate that Josh takes (lof of) time to write update for the community. Yet, we know the development which has been done on a "day-to-day basis". We don't know what we might call the Plan (with a big P).
If there is a Plan, it is ok we don't know it. Community does not need to know the "boring project management stuff".But...when I read the dev log, although there are proof of great technicals skills (I envy him so much), I have a feeling that Josh is doing " this today, maybe that tomorrow".
If I'm right about it, it may not be a big deal : again, Josh is brilliant, it may work this way and my worries are just impatience...

Well enough with critics... sorry :oops:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Archile » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:08 pm

Even were I a backer I would be fine if Josh took to the end of 2014. I backed Star Citizen and they have a budget many times the size of Josh's and a whole lot more people and they could not even release the DFM on-time. So being a developer myself I know that Josh is not only busting his tail to provide us with a VERY unique and ground-breaking game, but to be progressing as he has been he must also have a clear end-goal and milestones. I think that certain parts, perhaps like the AI, may have caused him unexpected delays, and this happens. Every new dev video I watch just fills me with more awe for the game he is building. Truly the AI, UI, content generation and over-all immersion of the games' atmosphere are state-of-the-art if not brand-new and for one man to be achieving this alone, delays are perfectly fine by me!
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Ixos » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:30 pm

Still nothing about when the beta will start except for what was initially told during kickstarter:

"well before the game's official release."


We can also assume it will be early enough in the process to allow for this:

"Voice your opinion, and you may just have a significant impact on the game!"



I know I may sound like I'm nagging or demanding, but I just strongly believe that involving customers/community as early as possible in any kind of development is vital for a good end result... :thumbup:
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Re: Shifting the Release Date to Mid 2014!

Postby Katorone » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:10 am

He is planning to do that... It just might not include us, or perhaps it will... Time will tell. :)
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