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Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:44 pm
by Talvieno
Well, Comcast tried to get Disney in a hostile takeover in 2004, but Disney ultimately rejected the offer. They'll probably try again at some point. Disney will only remain Disney for so long. So, that's from 6 news corporations down to 5 now, and 4 soon, from almost 50 only 40 years ago.

It's really weird that there's no laws in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening, but I guess with corporations pulling the strings behind politicians, it was going to happen eventually one way or another.

At any rate, I plan to move out of the US at some point to get away from this nonsense (and other nonsense).

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:13 am
by DigitalDuck
Talvieno wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:44 pm
At any rate, I plan to move out of the US at some point to get away from this nonsense (and other nonsense).
You can't get away from nonsense. It's like that wherever you go.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:03 am
by Hyperion
But there are plenty of places that don't have crumbling empire nonsense

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:10 pm
by Flatfingers
DigitalDuck wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:13 am
You can't get away from nonsense. It's like that wherever you go.

Truth.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:53 pm
by masseffect7
Talvieno wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:41 pm
AT&T bought Time Warner last night, and Comcast is about to buy what's left of Fox. With Net Neutrality down, AT&T is free to raise prices for Netflix, or even block it entirely in favor of its newly-acquired "HBO Go", of which Netflix is a direct competitor. Netflix doesn't have the strength to stand up to something like that. The end of Netflix may already be looming on the horizon, and after all the companies acquire each other, it's mission accomplished!

Congrats guys! High fives and beers all around! We're becoming a true dystopian cyberpunk like Netrunner, but without the netrunners!
And then AT&T would lose customers, because people want Netflix. This problem is easily fixed through encouraging competition and stopping municipalities, counties, and states from enforcing monopolies. Big companies succeed in high-regulation environments because they have the infrastructure, knowledge, and money to deal with regulations fairly easily. For a startup, regulations can kill the seed before it sprouts roots. Based on what we've seen of the behavior and competence of gov't agents over the past few years, I'd prefer that they not be anywhere near the internet.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:09 pm
by Flatfingers
Something I wonder -- and I'm not in "argumentative" mode here, I really do wonder about this -- is whether the divide on this question (and others) comes down to whether one believes that corporations are more dangerous than governments. (Feel free to substitute some other word or phrase than "dangerous" as long as it retains the idea of "can do more damage to citizens.")

The most common defense I see for retaining the FCC's declaration of power in 2015 over broadband companies, as well as for a lot of other regulatory action, is that corporations are by their very nature without ethics. Unless their behaviors are closely monitored and controlled by government agents, they'll take advantage of people every time. Some people take this belief further and hold that capitalism itself is inherently abusive, and more so than other socioeconomic organizing principles. Either way, most folks upset at the FCC ruling that returns oversight of anticompetitive actions by ISPs to the Federal Trade Commission seem to get there from a strong distrust of corporations.

Conversely, the most common defense I see for limiting the FCC's power over broadband providers (and, again more generally, of carefully limiting government regulatory controls) are from people who believe that governments are innately more dangerous than corporations and are more deserving of being restrained. They don't advocate for removing all regulations everywhere, nor do they have some funny notion that corporations are holy and perfect things incapable of stupid and/or harmful behaviors. They just think governments, as the legal holders of lethal force, are inherently more capable of doing harm to citizens than any market-responsive organization of private citizens. And so they conclude that preemptive regulation of ISPs by the FCC is, more than anything else, yet another power grab that ought to be reversed.

Does this seem like a fair description of why we choose the sides we do on this question? If not, is there some other explanation that works better?

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:17 pm
by Talvieno
You know, yes, I think that does make a lot of sense. It explains the differences in our standpoints very well. You don't trust the government to decide things, and I don't trust corporations to decide things. This is probably why there's such a solid republican/democrat divide on the topic. Democrats are for government, republicans are for corporations.

And me... I'm not sure where I fall exactly! I'm in a somewhat odd spot somewhere in the middle that somehow likes and dislikes both sides at once. :? I don't really trust the government to decide things, either, Flatfingers. :D I think everyone in both corps and gov't are all out for themselves. I just feel like the fact that there are/were policies in place to prevent a thing, however flimsy, helped prevent it more than there not being any.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:07 am
by Talvieno
That was fast.

Comcast is already altering their Xfinity Mobile service to take advantage of the lack of net neutrality. Most plans will have all videos throttled to a maximum of 480p -- unless you pay an extra fee. :) Hotspots on "unlimited plans" will be throttled to 600 kbps,

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:10 am
by Flatfingers
Always good to read the whole story... and kudos to Ars Technica for honest reporting:
The new speed limits could help Comcast save money on the reselling fees it pays Verizon. In a statement to Ars, Comcast said it's making the changes "to help us maintain the low price point of Xfinity Mobile."
...
"It's important to note that this change won't impact video resolution when using Wi-Fi, where customers will continue to be able to stream in HD," Comcast told Ars. Over Wi-Fi networks, including Comcast's public hotspots, video will play at whatever resolution is streamed by the video provider, a Comcast spokesperson told Ars. Nearly half of videos that stream on Comcast's mobile service play at 480p today, according to the company.
...
While Comcast is imposing the video and hotspot changes shortly after the repeal of net neutrality rules, the rules may not have stopped this form of throttling. The rules banned throttling, but they had an exception for "reasonable network management."

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:29 pm
by Talvieno
Indeed. To be honest, it's not really as bad as I would have expected. So far, anyway. :D I can't say I agree with the 480p-unless-you-pay, but I do understand it. I actually have more beef with the fact that their "Unlimited" service isn't actually "unlimited"... but that's been in place for a while now. It's just marketing... although some might argue it's false advertising. (Which it kind of is.)

What I disagree with the most is the hotspot stuff. They throttle to unreasonably slow speeds (that's even slower than my internet) and then the only way to get faster download speed is to switch to their $12 per GB plan. The whole "helps users conserve data" doesn't make any sense at all, either. That's just marketing, I suspect. If you need to download something, you need to download it. It doesn't matter if it's coming at 600kbps or 16Mbps - you have to have it either way. There is no "conservation" there, but if you need to have it in a hurry you're more likely to "upgrade" to the plan that gave you the same thing that you used to have, but costs more. More money in Comcast's pockets.

If the plan was actually unlimited as they claim, you shouldn't have to "conserve data" at all. There should be unlimited data available. Right?

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:24 pm
by Cornflakes_91
weird that that becomes a problem just after the net neutrality rulings. what a coincidence.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:53 am
by Cody
India has adopted recommendations strongly backing net neutrality that experts say could be the "strongest" in the world.

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:20 pm
by Cornflakes_91

Re: Net Neutrality

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:31 am
by Cornflakes_91
Cornflakes_91 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:26 am
(and before the argument with "but streaming providers use so much capacity!" comes up again: what are netflix & co paying their connection fees for? If not to pay for the infrastructure usage? And they are 10000000% surely not getting a deal thats below running costs for the ISP)
i've recently learned that at least netflix isnt paying its fair share of connection fees, but instead handle their own backbone segments (aka act as their own ISPs) and utilise a generally accepted "i transfer your traffic if you transfer my traffic" arrangement which ISPs generally have with each other, which works under the assumption that the traffic is somewhat symmetric in both directions. With both networks handling as much traffic of the other as the other carries of their traffic.
Which netflix doesnt honor, because they service themselves and produce load on everyone else's networks without taking load of other networks.
Under those conditions netflix would definitely have to pay ISPs for carrying their traffic and/or have themselves deprioritised if they dont.
Because they abuse a good faith agreement and dont compensate the others for that abuse.

TLDR: i thought netflix is already paying their connection fees, they actually arent.