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Re: The Endless Runway

#32
Scytale wrote:
Flatfingers wrote: My concern would be with inclement weather, especially snow/ice conditions. Once slipping starts, you will go in a straight line until something stops you. At least a straight runway keeps you on a hard, flat surface for a little while, compared to falling off a circular runway almost immediately.

Have the designers addressed this question?
It's tilted. The water will collect at the incline of the circle. And I think, as all runways today already have, this runway too will have small canals that help to prevent the forming of puddles (on flat surfaces) and help the water to spread more evenly and get off the runway faster.
It's still a problem though. Even with the camber there may be large components of the centripetal force required to keep the plane on the runway that friction may not be able to provide.[/quote]

That's why it's not tilted everywhere the same. Towards the middle, it's more shallow and on the edges steeper.
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Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"
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Re: The Endless Runway

#33
Flatfingers wrote:I assume fully-automated landing and takeoff would be required to use this kind of airport.

My concern would be with inclement weather, especially snow/ice conditions. Once slipping starts, you will go in a straight line until something stops you. At least a straight runway keeps you on a hard, flat surface for a little while, compared to falling off a circular runway almost immediately.

Have the designers addressed this question?
Yes, they have. Instead of rolling straight out into a grassy field, they added a helpful jump a la skateboard park. Now you can do mad flips while you're losing control too.
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Re: The Endless Runway

#34
Talvieno wrote:
Flatfingers wrote:I assume fully-automated landing and takeoff would be required to use this kind of airport.

My concern would be with inclement weather, especially snow/ice conditions. Once slipping starts, you will go in a straight line until something stops you. At least a straight runway keeps you on a hard, flat surface for a little while, compared to falling off a circular runway almost immediately.

Have the designers addressed this question?
Yes, they have. Instead of rolling straight out into a grassy field, they added a helpful jump a la skateboard park. Now you can do mad flips while you're losing control too.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"
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Re: Things That Made You Happy Today

#37
many people wrote:
oh boy. never thought this little news would get so much attention.
i picked Talvieno for my response, just because he wrote so much 8-)
Talvieno wrote: (...) Humans make mistakes, and in systems where mistakes are easier to make, they tend to be more prone to making them. I would wager a guess that this system would not only fail to work - it would fail catastrophically. (...) adding new factors that are more complicated than all of these? I smell the potential for disaster.

I agree. Even with simulators these "flying-bus-drivers" would be inexpierenced. But those who made this design of the airport had some simulated landings/take offs. It doesn't seem to be a killing argument
Talvieno wrote:Another thought, while I'm at it - taking off and landing at a bank would greatly increase the stall speed - and aircraft have trouble with stable turns until they get up to speed anyway.
seems already been simulated too, or this concept wouldn't have gotten so far.
Talvieno wrote: On the subject of wind, normally pilots only have to deal with it from one direction - and wind can have an enormous effect on a plane. In this scenario, if it's windy, they have to deal with it from all directions as they go around the track.
Disagree. This seems to be the big plus. If there are strong winds you can just use another part of the circle, so the wind comes from the front. So the danger of side winds can be reduced with a decreased capacity of the airport.
Talvieno wrote: I'm also concerned about stresses on the tires and undercarriage, which are designed for one thing: landing on flat runways. In fact, if a tire blows on a traditional runway, the plane can just keep chugging forward and get the tire fixed after they unload the passengers. In this scenario, though, I would expect the plane to leave the runway entirely - in NASCAR you see cars completely leave the track when a tire blows, because suddenly they can't turn. Planes would probably do the same. Occasionally the gear collapse entirely, or you have to do a belly landing. These are extreme scenarios, but they must be considered. On a traditional runway, you're fine. On this runway, you're off the edge and survival is uncertain.

I'm also concerned that banked runways would probably limit wingspan... and I see the potential for a plane crashing because it banked too much as well, losing a wing, going out of control, and killing all passengers aboard.
has to be tested/calculated. in my opinion the radius combined with the slant seems to be enough to hold the plane within the runway till it stops.
And i guess it would probably wingspan. So no A380 at this airport :(
Talvieno wrote: On a traditional runway, there's set flight patterns pilots learn to use for things like missed approaches. How do they handle that here? Indeed, how would air traffic controllers deal with 360 degrees instead of just four to eight cardinal directions?(..)
You would also have to figure out exactly what point on the circle a plane should start its takeoff, so it would be facing in the appropriate direction when it got into the air...
Traffic control would need a special software for its airport, that is clear. But imho it is just software.
And some problems can be solved easily. For example lights which determine the runway can be dynamically turned on/off. And the approach of the plane can (and should) be directed so the plane just has to fly a straight line (until it lands).
:D
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Re: The Endless Runway

#38
Ideally, it's a wonderful solution. In practice, not so much. All the tests and simulations rely on excellent pilots, sturdy planes, and good conditions. The real world has little of those. This is something just begging for a catastrophe - especially if someone (anyone from the ATC to the pilot to the machinists to the construction crews) tries cutting corners - and that's something we humans excel at.
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Re: The Endless Runway

#40
Talvieno wrote:Ideally, it's a wonderful solution. In practice, not so much. All the tests and simulations rely on excellent pilots, sturdy planes, and good conditions. The real world has little of those. This is something just begging for a catastrophe - especially if someone (anyone from the ATC to the pilot to the machinists to the construction crews) tries cutting corners - and that's something we humans excel at.
Well, I only know it about our pilots, but pilot school is pretty though. And good. Pilot's are trained not to just "so stuff" because they feel like it. Because that could cost lives, including their own.

But yeah, you can't let a pilot land here who has his "first flight" (first official flight). But that's why young pilots are always accompanied by older, very experienced pilots to take control if the younger pilot messes something up or just to advise them.


Graf wrote:
Talvieno wrote:cutting corners
*Glances at circular Runway*
:lol:
*Runs*
:ghost: :ghost: :ghost: :ghost:
:mrgreen: :clap:
Automation engineer, lateral thinker, soldier, addicted to music, books and gaming.
Nothing to see here
Flatfingers wrote: 23.01.2017: "Show me the smoldering corpse of Perfectionist Josh"

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