PS4 vs $750 PC

Just what it sounds like.

Re: Beautiful Game Screenshots

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:33 pm

Talvieno wrote:http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-360-vs-Radeon-HD-7870

Still a win.

Edit: And, yes, let me split it off.


not a like-to-like comparison: the ps4 is an 8GB card. the one you compare is a 2GB card.
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Re: Beautiful Game Screenshots

Postby Silverware » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:34 pm

Scytale wrote:
Talvieno wrote:http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R9-360-vs-Radeon-HD-7870

Still a win.

Edit: And, yes, let me split it off.


not a like-to-like comparison: the ps4 is an 8GB card. the one you compare is a 2GB card.


It's also customized, so quite likely performs better, and as the article states, is overclocked by default.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:39 pm

Also note that i7-6700 is a 4-core CPU, unlike the PS4's 8-core CPU
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Talvieno » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:59 pm

PS4 can't even run notepad. I don't care what specs it has - that's kind of sad. :ghost:

More seriously, we're comparing the PS4 to a Dell that happened to be at the very top (ergo, first thing I grabbed) from the list of $750 gaming computers. :ghost: I'm quite sure you could easily outdo the PS4 with $750 if you actually tried.

Trying to say that a single random Dell represents all PCs is honestly kind of racist. :ghost:

:ghost:
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:09 pm

Talvieno wrote:PS4 can't even run notepad. I don't care what specs it has - that's kind of sad. :ghost:

More seriously, we're comparing the PS4 to a Dell that happened to be at the very top (ergo, first thing I grabbed) from the list of $750 gaming computers. :ghost: I'm quite sure you could easily outdo the PS4 with $750 if you actually tried.

Trying to say that a single random Dell represents all PCs is honestly kind of racist. :ghost:


In my experience Dell has been rather cheap for ready-built computers, but I've never built my own computer because I don't want to spend the time learning to get everything right. I'd be genuinely interested if you can find a non-Dell with that performance for cheaper without having to tinker yourself. But that's by the by. One of the undisputed advantages of PCs is you *can* tinker, so anyway.

But you still don't win from the exchange, Tal. I'm not really sure why we're even talking about $400 since the first link that came up for a Google for me showed me I can get a PS4 for $260 plus some controllers.

https://jet.com/product/detail/018e638dd19d46269dbce1474f2eaccf?jcmp=pla:ggl:cwin_electronics_a1:video_game_consoles_a1_top:na:PLA_348772500_24231364140_pla-161711465820:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&gclid=CjwKEAiA_9nFBRCsurz7y_Px8xoSJAAUqvKCXPgz5AfpfXBF60yPXQHdDY2MX6L7jCiT3E7hG9F5ihoC7yvw_wcB

-and that's being generous. Subtract the price of the controllers and the game you get at least another $60 off, if not more.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Silverware » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:27 pm

Talvieno wrote:PS4 can't even run notepad. I don't care what specs it has - that's kind of sad. :ghost:

More seriously, we're comparing the PS4 to a Dell that happened to be at the very top (ergo, first thing I grabbed) from the list of $750 gaming computers. :ghost: I'm quite sure you could easily outdo the PS4 with $750 if you actually tried.

Trying to say that a single random Dell represents all PCs is honestly kind of racist. :ghost:

:ghost:


You are right, it cant run notepad, a windows application, because it is a BSD fork.
But if only for gaming you should compare it with PCs of the same price, and include a controller/mouse+KB too, and often a game (usually a recent enough release, so another $40)

If you really want to be fair... :V

Bottom line is, you have to spend at at least about twice, to get almost the same for gaming. And even then its questionable.
So when used for it's purpose it outperforms all devices of equivalent cost. :V

Only real argument against one is that you cant mod games. (not counting what Fo4 has on ps4 as mods, sony fucked bethesda over there)

Also, Scy, $400 is likely my fault, thats what I can get one for cheaply here in nz (and its 400 NZD) :V
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:30 pm

Silverware wrote:
Talvieno wrote:PS4 can't even run notepad. I don't care what specs it has - that's kind of sad. :ghost:

More seriously, we're comparing the PS4 to a Dell that happened to be at the very top (ergo, first thing I grabbed) from the list of $750 gaming computers. :ghost: I'm quite sure you could easily outdo the PS4 with $750 if you actually tried.

Trying to say that a single random Dell represents all PCs is honestly kind of racist. :ghost:

:ghost:


You are right, it cant run notepad, a windows application, because it is a BSD fork.
But if only for gaming you should compare it with PCs of the same price, and include a controller/mouse+KB too, and often a game (usually a recent enough release, so another $40)

If you really want to be fair... :V

Bottom line is, you have to spend at at least about twice, to get almost the same for gaming. And even then its questionable.
So when used for it's purpose it outperforms all devices of equivalent cost. :V

Only real argument against one is that you cant mod games. (not counting what Fo4 has on ps4 as mods, sony fucked bethesda over there)


The other argument is that computers are upgradeable with manual modification, but even there you'll eventually have to replace the motherboard to be compatible with a new GPU or CPU to keep up with compatibility issues, which would mean having to replace the other components... essentially a new PC. Might even have to get a new case -> new computer altogether.

On the console side, you could also argue that you need a dedicated monitor for the computer, while a console connects to an existing TV, but this is a bit disingenuous because it's an argument for versatility, in which the computer wins anyway.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Silverware » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:43 pm

Scytale wrote:The other argument is that computers are upgradeable with manual modification, but even there you'll eventually have to replace the motherboard to be compatible with a new GPU or CPU to keep up with compatibility issues, which would mean having to replace the other components... essentially a new PC. Might even have to get a new case -> new computer altogether.

On the console side, you could also argue that you need a dedicated monitor for the computer, while a console connects to an existing TV, but this is a bit disingenuous because it's an argument for versatility, in which the computer wins anyway.


I never argue about the screen thing, either or can use TV/Monitor easily now. Wasnt so easy in the past with everything using RCA or equivalent.
But with HDMI and DP its all easy now. Most tvs also take VGA.


Upgrading a console is typically only done once a generation. (this gen they are REALLY trying to get people to upgrade more often, but I doubt that'll catch on as few people will buy the upgraded version if they own the base, they would be better off with upgrade slots again)
While PCs need to be upgraded more often (although that is slowing down now that CPU core clock limits are being hit, and GPUs are hitting the ceiling of what a single core can do, adding more cores only goes so far)
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Talvieno » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:45 pm

Your link seems to be to an untrustworthy site, scytale. :ghost:

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.jet.com

$400 is the price listed on google for various (more trustworthy) sites.

But really I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. (hence the frequent use of :ghost:) :ghost: Both have their uses in different areas... but I'm still pretty sure you could build an epic custom PC for $750 if you knew what you were doing (and that it would outdo a PS4 in every area, which was the original argument). Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge available to test this :\ so it's a moot point.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Silverware » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:08 pm

Talvieno wrote:Your link seems to be to an untrustworthy site, scytale. :ghost:

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.jet.com

$400 is the price listed on google for various (more trustworthy) sites.

But really I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. (hence the frequent use of :ghost:) :ghost: Both have their uses in different areas... but I'm still pretty sure you could build an epic custom PC for $750 if you knew what you were doing (and that it would outdo a PS4 in every area, which was the original argument). Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge available to test this :\ so it's a moot point.


Naed could answer it for us. :3
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:27 pm

Talvieno wrote:Your link seems to be to an untrustworthy site, scytale. :ghost:

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.jet.com

$400 is the price listed on google for various (more trustworthy) sites.

But really I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. (hence the frequent use of :ghost:) :ghost: Both have their uses in different areas... but I'm still pretty sure you could build an epic custom PC for $750 if you knew what you were doing (and that it would outdo a PS4 in every area, which was the original argument). Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge available to test this :\ so it's a moot point.


Respectfully Tal, it's absolutely not a moot point. You made a very strong claim:

Yeah, no thanks, I'll stick to something that can do many times more for less than twice the price. (A PC)


That means building a computer which can do what a PS4 can at least twice as well (and that's being conservative) for less than $800. Now you did quote $400 so that's the standard, but if you claim you can meet this requirement "if you actually tried", then I claim I can get a PS4 for considerably less than $400 "if I actually tried". And the first link I get on Amazon is this . $255, that's even better than the jet link I gave you before. This includes peripherals and a game.

If anyone can come up with the goods I'll concede. But that claim is very big.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Talvieno » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:40 pm

That means building a computer which can do what a PS4 can at least twice as well (and that's being conservative) for less than $800.

No, no, no. Now wait just a minute there, you're twisting my words around.

I said "many times more". I did not say that in terms of power, but of usefulness and versatility. You can run notepad on a computer, for instance - but more importantly, modeling software, stuff like photoshop, you can run firefox and other web browsers, you can have coding software - all sorts of things that a PS4 can't even touch.

Also, simply coming up with a different price? That's a cheap move, Scytale (pun intended :ghost: ) . I'm sure could get a high-end gaming computer off of Craigslist for $50 if I looked extensively enough and got really lucky - something that could totally blow your PS4 out of the water no matter how cheap it sold for. Of course, that's going outside the bounds of this argument because when I mentioned a PS4's price, I was specifically referring to this:

Image

You know I was referring to $400 specifically as well. You're trying to redefine the rules of this argument. :monkey: I'll beat you at your own game.

Yeah, no thanks, I'll stick to something that can do many times more for less than twice the price. (A PC)

What I actually meant was: I bet you couldn't find a PS4 up to twice the price of a regular PS4 that could actually run Windows software. If you can come up with the goods, I'll concede... but that counter-claim of yours is very big.

:mrgreen:
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Silverware » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:42 pm

Console has browser, browser is webkit based and has javascript, javascript can and does do anything, ergo console can do anything.

Also:

Talvieno wrote:Also, simply coming up with a different price? That's a cheap move, Scytale (pun intended :ghost: ) . I'm sure could get a high-end gaming computer off of Craigslist for $50 if I looked extensively enough and got really lucky - something that could totally blow your PS4 out of the water no matter how cheap it sold for. Of course, that's going outside the bounds of this argument because when I mentioned a PS4's price, I was specifically referring to this:


We are only talking new hardware here, the $255 that Scy found is a new device with controllers and games.
Can you beat that with $510?
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Talvieno » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:45 pm

No, don't think I can, Silver. I don't think they make a PS4 that will run non-PS4 software for $510.

edit: Also, in case it wasn't absolutely clear, see the topic title. :ghost: I'm saying a low-end $750 PC can totally outdo a PS4. I don't really care what the PS4 costs.
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Re: PS4 vs $750 PC

Postby Scytale » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:52 pm

You're right, I actually misunderstood what you were claiming, I'm sorry. That's alright for me. Certainly PCs are much more versatile than PS4s, a matter we agreed on from the beginning.

But seriously,
Also, simply coming up with a different price? That's a cheap move, Scytale (pun intended :ghost: ) . I'm sure could get a high-end gaming computer off of Craigslist for $50 if I looked extensively enough and got really lucky - something that could totally blow your PS4 out of the water no matter how cheap it sold for.

don't be stupid. I told you, this is the first link on Amazon. I didn't have to go hunting for this. I can in fact not see a $400 price. But as I already said,
Now you did quote $400 so that's the standard,

so don't accuse me of trying to change the argument. I did misunderstand you on the performance issue, but I'm not trying to cheat you.

What I actually meant was: I bet you couldn't find a PS4 up to twice the price of a regular PS4 that could actually run Windows software. If you can come up with the goods, I'll concede... but that counter-claim of yours is very big.

You can quote this all you like, but since I never made that claim we're fine - just how you never made the claim I thought you did.

But I DO stand by what I actually claimed:
Certainly a $750 PC won't get you playing games with better graphics than HZD


which you still seem to dispute.
Last edited by Scytale on Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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