"american space exploration" god dammit, put your damn nationalism somewhere else! AARGH
(did i ever mention that i hate americans in general? not the ones who come here to read this, though)
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:14 am
#2
Re: Orion launch
Hey I'm not alone.Cornflakes_91 wrote:"american space exploration" god dammit, put your damn nationalism somewhere else! AARGH
(did i ever mention that i hate americans in general? not the ones who come here to read this, though)
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:40 am
#3
edit: no, I don't think it's hypocrisy. But it's the sort of thing you hear arrogant pricks say when they're busy judging entire demographics. Please don't be an arrogant prick Cornflakes
Re: Orion launch
"Present company excepted", right? Dude, that's hypocrisy. Also, blanket statement.Cornflakes_91 wrote:"american space exploration" god dammit, put your damn nationalism somewhere else! AARGH
(did i ever mention that i hate americans in general? not the ones who come here to read this, though)
edit: no, I don't think it's hypocrisy. But it's the sort of thing you hear arrogant pricks say when they're busy judging entire demographics. Please don't be an arrogant prick Cornflakes
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:35 am
#4
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
I've been in America myself once, it was a cultural shock to me. The fake part applies for the majority of the people I guess and the arrogant part for the government.
We went there to visit an aunt of mine who, 25 years ago, left to settle in America. (I never saw her in person before)
The moment I set foot in the house I was hugged, a sudden "Hey, how are you today" like I've seen her yesterday. Now, to a dutch person this is very insulting, not just insulting, but really insulting. It's fake, all the way.
Then there was breakfast, they went to a "Diner" to eat pancakes, to make a long story short. There was a lot of fake hospitality among the people, the waitress was tooo nice, with that ever white smile plastered on her face. The family didn't eat together, their houses are way too big, their cars are too big, the malls are too big... Everything was like "oversized" and "over the top".
Why do you want to choose from 25 brands that offer the same product, diversity is a good thing, but this was going to far.
It's not that I hate every American, but seeing how they behave in their everyday life gives me the creeps, those people must be exhausted at the end of the day. It looks like they're just f@%^$ing around all thay, trying to do nice to everybody but fail in doing so truly.
hint: watch the YouTube link in my footnote
Re: Orion launch
I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their soceity is just so alien compared to ours.Scytale wrote:"Present company excepted", right? Dude, that's hypocrisy. Also, blanket statement.Cornflakes_91 wrote:"american space exploration" god dammit, put your damn nationalism somewhere else! AARGH
(did i ever mention that i hate americans in general? not the ones who come here to read this, though)
edit: no, I don't think it's hypocrisy. But it's the sort of thing you hear arrogant pricks say when they're busy judging entire demographics. Please don't be an arrogant prick Cornflakes
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
I've been in America myself once, it was a cultural shock to me. The fake part applies for the majority of the people I guess and the arrogant part for the government.
We went there to visit an aunt of mine who, 25 years ago, left to settle in America. (I never saw her in person before)
The moment I set foot in the house I was hugged, a sudden "Hey, how are you today" like I've seen her yesterday. Now, to a dutch person this is very insulting, not just insulting, but really insulting. It's fake, all the way.
Then there was breakfast, they went to a "Diner" to eat pancakes, to make a long story short. There was a lot of fake hospitality among the people, the waitress was tooo nice, with that ever white smile plastered on her face. The family didn't eat together, their houses are way too big, their cars are too big, the malls are too big... Everything was like "oversized" and "over the top".
Why do you want to choose from 25 brands that offer the same product, diversity is a good thing, but this was going to far.
It's not that I hate every American, but seeing how they behave in their everyday life gives me the creeps, those people must be exhausted at the end of the day. It looks like they're just f@%^$ing around all thay, trying to do nice to everybody but fail in doing so truly.
hint: watch the YouTube link in my footnote
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:45 pm
#5
Kurt Cobain once wrote: "To be positive at all times is to ignore all that is important, sacred or valuable. To be negative at all times is to be threatened by ridiculousness and instant discredibility". I think he was speaking partly toward American culture at the time. Things that are valuable, or sacred, are often not what one notices or pays attention to in an excited state. However, there are also times when it's okay to be excited: like during the launch of a new human space exploration system.
I think it's awesome. I was born (in Tokyo) right around the time the Space Shuttle program was just ramping up. I can't believe it's been more than forty years since a human being has set foot on a celestial body other than Earth. I hope to see this happen again in my lifetime: the Moon, and also Mars.
Re: Orion launch
I think it's a great country that I live in. Like any country, we're capable of great endeavors, and also great harm, depending on the leadership and ideals of the people. That being said, I had a co-worker for a time, a history teacher, who jokingly used to say "welcome to the excited states of America". It took me a while to get what he was saying, but you may have caught on to a glimmer of that aspect:Tsjernobyl wrote:
I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their soceity is just so alien compared to ours.
...
their everyday life gives me the creeps, those people must be exhausted at the end of the day.
Kurt Cobain once wrote: "To be positive at all times is to ignore all that is important, sacred or valuable. To be negative at all times is to be threatened by ridiculousness and instant discredibility". I think he was speaking partly toward American culture at the time. Things that are valuable, or sacred, are often not what one notices or pays attention to in an excited state. However, there are also times when it's okay to be excited: like during the launch of a new human space exploration system.
I think it's awesome. I was born (in Tokyo) right around the time the Space Shuttle program was just ramping up. I can't believe it's been more than forty years since a human being has set foot on a celestial body other than Earth. I hope to see this happen again in my lifetime: the Moon, and also Mars.
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:22 pm
#6
Re: Orion launch
Tsernobyl: what you are describing is a cultural contrast, and you are describing something you don't like about American culture, and that's fine. I can't stand it when people in China just randomly spit on the street, and the tendency in those parts of China not to respect personal space. "But," you might argue, "it's because the population density is so high!"
Well, maybe.
But it takes an utterly shortsighted worldview to extend that to "The Chinese are just really rude, and I don't like that."
Also, if you go to a country expecting to see fake hospitality everywhere, then that's all you will see there. When you travel overseas, you have to take personal responsibility for the fact that you are in a different culture. You don't get to judge the other guy on his home ground.
I don't like fake hospitality either, it grinds on my nerves. But bloody hell, that doesn't make me hate the Americans. What a stupid thing to say. I know you didn't say that explicitly Tsernobyl, but what you're describing is a very basic human instinct to dislike something you're not used to. I really think that we have the capacity to rise above that if we use our heads instead of our guts for once.
Well, maybe.
But it takes an utterly shortsighted worldview to extend that to "The Chinese are just really rude, and I don't like that."
Also, if you go to a country expecting to see fake hospitality everywhere, then that's all you will see there. When you travel overseas, you have to take personal responsibility for the fact that you are in a different culture. You don't get to judge the other guy on his home ground.
I don't like fake hospitality either, it grinds on my nerves. But bloody hell, that doesn't make me hate the Americans. What a stupid thing to say. I know you didn't say that explicitly Tsernobyl, but what you're describing is a very basic human instinct to dislike something you're not used to. I really think that we have the capacity to rise above that if we use our heads instead of our guts for once.
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:49 pm
#7
Cultural differences are to be expected. For instance, people in Latin America (Brazil comes to mind) tend to stand closer to each other when holding a conversation than people in the "western" world. For an American such as myself, this would come across as an invasion of personal space. But for them, standing farther apart would probably seem unwelcoming, unfriendly, and aloof. They also tend to act much more familiar with each other than us Americans -- people regularly strike up conversations with complete strangers. If Americans are "fake" and "rude" for greeting someone with a smile, this must surely make Brazilians positively evil.
It should be noted that in our (i.e. American) culture, asking someone -- anyone! -- how they've been is simply a traditional greeting, similar to the German "wie geht's?". It isn't meant as a serious question. And whereas with you, it would seem overly familiar and insulting, to us it comes across as open and friendly. The situation with the waitress is the same. She isn't smiling because serving you was the best darn thing she did all day, and it's not meant to be interpreted that way, either. She's smiling because (to the American customers), it makes her seem warm and positive. If, instead, she wore a straight face and greeted her customers by asking "what do you want?" in a flat voice, most would consider her overly direct, unwelcoming, and maybe even a little rude. In other words, to us, hugging, smiling (sometimes even when you aren't happy), and familiarity aren't "fake hospitality." They're regular hospitality, plain and simple.
Americans essentially experience the same culture shock as you did when they visit Europe, but in reverse. They frequently find Europeans to be aloof, uncaring, and rude.
Just to be clear, I'm not asserting that the American way is better or worse. My point is merely that people of different cultures interact with each other in different ways, sometimes very much so, and what is rude or even unforgivable in one culture may well be expected in the next.
And on the subject of our "damn nationalism," Scytale pointed out how wrong it is to make blanket statements. I'm an example of this. I personally believe that our government has no business doing half the things it does around the world, and I know that I'm not the only one. A significant number of Americans were pissed when Obama started firing missiles in Syria, because (a) he did so without the necessary approval from Congress, and (b) because it wasn't our f*cking business to be firing missiles there in the first place.
The moral of the story here is that you should judge foreign people by their own culture's standards, not your own.
Also, stereotypes can be very ugly things. Please don't spread them.
Re: Orion launch
I don't understand why you are so upset over this. Did you expect America to be just like your own country? Do you expect every country's populace to have the same standards for interpersonal communication, and if they don't, then they're rude?Tsjernobyl wrote:I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their soceity is just so alien compared to ours.Scytale wrote:"Present company excepted", right? Dude, that's hypocrisy. Also, blanket statement.Cornflakes_91 wrote:"american space exploration" god dammit, put your damn nationalism somewhere else! AARGH
(did i ever mention that i hate americans in general? not the ones who come here to read this, though)
edit: no, I don't think it's hypocrisy. But it's the sort of thing you hear arrogant pricks say when they're busy judging entire demographics. Please don't be an arrogant prick Cornflakes
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
I've been in America myself once, it was a cultural shock to me. The fake part applies for the majority of the people I guess and the arrogant part for the government.
We went there to visit an aunt of mine who, 25 years ago, left to settle in America. (I never saw her in person before)
The moment I set foot in the house I was hugged, a sudden "Hey, how are you today" like I've seen her yesterday. Now, to a dutch person this is very insulting, not just insulting, but really insulting. It's fake, all the way.
Then there was breakfast, they went to a "Diner" to eat pancakes, to make a long story short. There was a lot of fake hospitality among the people, the waitress was tooo nice, with that ever white smile plastered on her face. The family didn't eat together, their houses are way too big, their cars are too big, the malls are too big... Everything was like "oversized" and "over the top".
Why do you want to choose from 25 brands that offer the same product, diversity is a good thing, but this was going to far.
It's not that I hate every American, but seeing how they behave in their everyday life gives me the creeps, those people must be exhausted at the end of the day. It looks like they're just f@%^$ing around all thay, trying to do nice to everybody but fail in doing so truly.
hint: watch the YouTube link in my footnote
Cultural differences are to be expected. For instance, people in Latin America (Brazil comes to mind) tend to stand closer to each other when holding a conversation than people in the "western" world. For an American such as myself, this would come across as an invasion of personal space. But for them, standing farther apart would probably seem unwelcoming, unfriendly, and aloof. They also tend to act much more familiar with each other than us Americans -- people regularly strike up conversations with complete strangers. If Americans are "fake" and "rude" for greeting someone with a smile, this must surely make Brazilians positively evil.
It should be noted that in our (i.e. American) culture, asking someone -- anyone! -- how they've been is simply a traditional greeting, similar to the German "wie geht's?". It isn't meant as a serious question. And whereas with you, it would seem overly familiar and insulting, to us it comes across as open and friendly. The situation with the waitress is the same. She isn't smiling because serving you was the best darn thing she did all day, and it's not meant to be interpreted that way, either. She's smiling because (to the American customers), it makes her seem warm and positive. If, instead, she wore a straight face and greeted her customers by asking "what do you want?" in a flat voice, most would consider her overly direct, unwelcoming, and maybe even a little rude. In other words, to us, hugging, smiling (sometimes even when you aren't happy), and familiarity aren't "fake hospitality." They're regular hospitality, plain and simple.
Americans essentially experience the same culture shock as you did when they visit Europe, but in reverse. They frequently find Europeans to be aloof, uncaring, and rude.
Just to be clear, I'm not asserting that the American way is better or worse. My point is merely that people of different cultures interact with each other in different ways, sometimes very much so, and what is rude or even unforgivable in one culture may well be expected in the next.
And on the subject of our "damn nationalism," Scytale pointed out how wrong it is to make blanket statements. I'm an example of this. I personally believe that our government has no business doing half the things it does around the world, and I know that I'm not the only one. A significant number of Americans were pissed when Obama started firing missiles in Syria, because (a) he did so without the necessary approval from Congress, and (b) because it wasn't our f*cking business to be firing missiles there in the first place.
The moral of the story here is that you should judge foreign people by their own culture's standards, not your own.
Also, stereotypes can be very ugly things. Please don't spread them.
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:55 pm
#8
Re: Orion launch
Much better, and more gently said, than I could. Thanks Juggler.
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:40 pm
#9
Re: Orion launch
No problem!Scytale wrote:Much better, and more gently said, than I could. Thanks Juggler.
Post
Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:55 pm
#10
Re: Orion launch
Wooaa, don't feel so attacked, please. I know that other countries have other cultures, I was merely discribing why I had such a cultural schock. I just tried to go there and fit in as well as I could, I failed hard time. Yeah I know it's cultural difference, I know it's not every American.
I didn't say "I hate all americans", but I did point out some things that I was shocked about and didn't like... Is there a problem in that.
Anyhow, nice show on the telly.
I didn't say "I hate all americans", but I did point out some things that I was shocked about and didn't like... Is there a problem in that.
Anyhow, nice show on the telly.
Post
Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:01 am
#11
Re: Orion launch
For the record, I don't feel attacked, since I'm not an American. I can't speak for Juggler. Also, with respect, you said this:Tsjernobyl wrote:Wooaa, don't feel so attacked, please. I know that other countries have other cultures, I was merely discribing why I had such a cultural schock. I just tried to go there and fit in as well as I could, I failed hard time. Yeah I know it's cultural difference, I know it's not every American.
I didn't say "I hate all americans", but I did point out some things that I was shocked about and didn't like... Is there a problem in that.
Anyhow, nice show on the telly.
without much qualification; your story about culture shock seemed like a justification (or, more kindly, an explanation) for this sentiment rather than anything else.I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their soceity is just so alien compared to ours.
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
Post
Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:56 am
#12
Let me try to explain this better:
Due to my personal experience with Americans I can say that most of the time we do not get along, perhaps from both sides.
Due to my stubborn nature, my viewpoint, confirmed by my visit to America, is not likely to change.
One could call this short sighted or character, but I feel no need to change in any way to be more tolerant to others if it means I'm stepping away from who I am as a person.
I respect others in their country, therefore I try not to be "rude" about their culture. But at the same time others will have to respect me.
If I find another culture weird/different I am allowed to say that, If someone finds my culture weird/different they can say that. If it is true,I will always agree that it might look weird, and we can laugh about the difference together.
I sincerely hope I made myself clear, and hope to end this discussion in a decent way. If I hurt any ones feelings, I sincerely apologise for that.
Re: Orion launch
So, if you weren't exactly sure how I meant it why didn't you ask but instead assume the worst?Scytale wrote:For the record, I don't feel attacked, since I'm not an American. I can't speak for Juggler. Also, with respect, you said this:Tsjernobyl wrote:Wooaa, don't feel so attacked, please. I know that other countries have other cultures, I was merely discribing why I had such a cultural schock. I just tried to go there and fit in as well as I could, I failed hard time. Yeah I know it's cultural difference, I know it's not every American.
I didn't say "I hate all americans", but I did point out some things that I was shocked about and didn't like... Is there a problem in that.
Anyhow, nice show on the telly.
without much qualification; your story about culture shock seemed like a justification (or, more kindly, an explanation) for this sentiment rather than anything else.I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their society is just so alien compared to ours.
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
Let me try to explain this better:
Due to my personal experience with Americans I can say that most of the time we do not get along, perhaps from both sides.
Due to my stubborn nature, my viewpoint, confirmed by my visit to America, is not likely to change.
One could call this short sighted or character, but I feel no need to change in any way to be more tolerant to others if it means I'm stepping away from who I am as a person.
I respect others in their country, therefore I try not to be "rude" about their culture. But at the same time others will have to respect me.
If I find another culture weird/different I am allowed to say that, If someone finds my culture weird/different they can say that. If it is true,I will always agree that it might look weird, and we can laugh about the difference together.
I sincerely hope I made myself clear, and hope to end this discussion in a decent way. If I hurt any ones feelings, I sincerely apologise for that.
Post
Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:54 am
#13
Re: Orion launch
Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes one can't reconcile oneself to another culture.
I should point out that I didn't feel unsure of what you said; as I said, I got the impression you were denouncing American culture because it was different to your own, and I acted on that.
I should point out that I didn't feel unsure of what you said; as I said, I got the impression you were denouncing American culture because it was different to your own, and I acted on that.
Post
Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:45 am
#14
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your sentiment.
This might very well be an example of what we've been discussing (i.e. people from different cultures misunderstanding each other). In which case, it's a great learning experience!
Even though I've never left America, I *have* worked (and still do, actually) for a very old German native. Even though it was on a much smaller scale, I can definitely empathize with your culture shock experience. The way she bluntly criticized my every move and took offence at seemingly everything I said took a lot of getting used to. I'm pretty sure I was actually moved to tears at one point.
You know, I'm actually finding all of this discussion about cultural differences to be very interesting and enlightening. There should be a separate thread for this.
Re: Orion launch
Fair enough. Like Scy, the reason I initially responded was because your entire message seemed to me to say "Americans are bad people and I hate them because they aren't like me." Now, me? I can never mind my own business, and I just couldn't let that kind of statement stand unchallenged.Tsjernobyl wrote:So, if you weren't exactly sure how I meant it why didn't you ask but instead assume the worst?Scytale wrote:For the record, I don't feel attacked, since I'm not an American. I can't speak for Juggler. Also, with respect, you said this:Tsjernobyl wrote:Wooaa, don't feel so attacked, please. I know that other countries have other cultures, I was merely discribing why I had such a cultural schock. I just tried to go there and fit in as well as I could, I failed hard time. Yeah I know it's cultural difference, I know it's not every American.
I didn't say "I hate all americans", but I did point out some things that I was shocked about and didn't like... Is there a problem in that.
Anyhow, nice show on the telly.
without much qualification; your story about culture shock seemed like a justification (or, more kindly, an explanation) for this sentiment rather than anything else.I don't thinks it's every American, but the majority of people that live there. Their society is just so alien compared to ours.
I know I'm on very slippery ice here, but the general statement in my country is that Americans are fake and arrogant.
Let me try to explain this better:
Due to my personal experience with Americans I can say that most of the time we do not get along, perhaps from both sides.
Due to my stubborn nature, my viewpoint, confirmed by my visit to America, is not likely to change.
One could call this short sighted or character, but I feel no need to change in any way to be more tolerant to others if it means I'm stepping away from who I am as a person.
I respect others in their country, therefore I try not to be "rude" about their culture. But at the same time others will have to respect me.
If I find another culture weird/different I am allowed to say that, If someone finds my culture weird/different they can say that. If it is true,I will always agree that it might look weird, and we can laugh about the difference together.
I sincerely hope I made myself clear, and hope to end this discussion in a decent way. If I hurt any ones feelings, I sincerely apologise for that.
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your sentiment.This might very well be an example of what we've been discussing (i.e. people from different cultures misunderstanding each other). In which case, it's a great learning experience!
Even though I've never left America, I *have* worked (and still do, actually) for a very old German native. Even though it was on a much smaller scale, I can definitely empathize with your culture shock experience. The way she bluntly criticized my every move and took offence at seemingly everything I said took a lot of getting used to. I'm pretty sure I was actually moved to tears at one point.
You know, I'm actually finding all of this discussion about cultural differences to be very interesting and enlightening. There should be a separate thread for this.
