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Re: Random

#67
ThymineC wrote:
DWMagus wrote:
It's because of things like this that make other religions backlash against other religions.
I don't know why America has such trouble with keeping religion and politics/education/whatever else separate.
Have you ever seen the American show "Penn and Teller's Bullshit"? Something tells me you might like it. A good example of this would be when they talk about Alcoholics Anonymous. AA is basically a 12-step program that teaches that you are not in control of your life and that you need to surrender to a higher power in order to find a solution to your alcoholism. They also mention that AA can be MANDATED to be taken by the courts in the events of DUIs. Thus, it has been reasoned (and fought by the ACLU) that the courts are basically mandating you accept some religion.

@Katawa
Yes, it does happen in many countries. There's just a difference between saying that you separate church and state and then don't do it. The fact that there is a significant portion of the US that believe that Christianity is the official religion of the country is a good example of that. It's the double-speak I have issues with. I mean, if the country came out and said it, at least there wouldn't be any illusions.
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Re: Random

#70
Katawa wrote:Yes let's pretend that's not a thing all countries struggle with.
Why pretend? It's hardly a problem at all in the UK, and I doubt it's much of a problem in many other European countries.
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Re: Random

#71
ThymineC wrote:
Katawa wrote:Yes let's pretend that's not a thing all countries struggle with.
Why pretend? It's hardly a problem at all in the UK, and I doubt it's much of a problem in many other European countries.
I am going to call bullshit on the above statement.

Some Europeans like to pretend that their countries have the solution to race (or ethnicity) and religion based problems. A closer look at the historical record shows that such pretension are, at best, myopic and spring primarily from wishful thinking.
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.
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Re: Random

#72
Tom wrote:
ThymineC wrote:
Katawa wrote:Yes let's pretend that's not a thing all countries struggle with.
Why pretend? It's hardly a problem at all in the UK, and I doubt it's much of a problem in many other European countries.
I am going to call bullshit on the above statement.

Some Europeans like to pretend that their countries have the solution to race (or ethnicity) and religion based problems. A closer look at the historical record shows that such pretension are, at best, myopic and spring primarily from wishful thinking.
I'm really sure that religion and politics mixing isn't anywhere near as big a problem in the UK as it is in the US.

Wow. :\
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Re: Random

#73
I'm really sure that religion and politics mixing isn't anywhere near as big a problem in the UK as it is in the US.
The American Christian Right is hardly unique in their belief that they have a monopoly on the one true faith. Their outsized political and media influence subsequently gives them the means to spread their bigotry far and wide.
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.
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Re: Random

#74
Tom wrote:
I'm really sure that religion and politics mixing isn't anywhere near as big a problem in the UK as it is in the US.
The American Christian Right is hardly unique in their belief that they have a monopoly on the one true faith. Their outsized political and media influence subsequently gives them the means to spread their bigotry far and wide.
So isn't your second statement kind of supporting what I'm saying - that it's a far bigger problem in America than it is in other countries like the UK? Like in Kentucky they were offering $40 million in tax breaks so that they could build a stupidly big replica of Noah's ark.

It's just mental.
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Re: Random

#75
ThymineC wrote:
Tom wrote:
I'm really sure that religion and politics mixing isn't anywhere near as big a problem in the UK as it is in the US.
The American Christian Right is hardly unique in their belief that they have a monopoly on the one true faith. Their outsized political and media influence subsequently gives them the means to spread their bigotry far and wide.
So isn't your second statement kind of supporting what I'm saying - that it's a far bigger problem in America than it is in other countries like the UK? Like in Kentucky they were offering $40 million in tax breaks so that they could build a stupidly big replica of Noah's ark.

It's just mental.
You mean the First Amendment (of the Bill of Rights) which is a broad guarantee of various freedoms (including freedom of religion). Only subsequent to a 1947 Supreme Court decision (Everson v. Board of Education) has it come to stand for "a wall of separation between church and State".

Interestingly, the Second Amendment is no less contentious as it is the crux of the government paralysis with regards to gun control in the United States.

I think that political and social dynamics in America tend to swing between progressive or reactionary poles in multi decade arcs. The system may be self-correcting, yet it is rarely in equilibrium.

With Europe literally having been through the wars with regards to religion there may well be less tolerance for the kind of nonsense that passes for acceptable in the States. Regardless, people are people no matter the veneer of civility they may hide their prejudices and bigotry behind. When push comes to shove, riots and nastiness surface everywhere humans live including the UK and the rest of Europe.
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.

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